# The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172 "2010-01-31T23:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1201 "2011-01-02T16:00:06Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > And adds some big-lipped bluuuuuz! > > Chuck Berry - Style! > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KJziKVA2pI&NR=1](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KJziKVA2pI&NR=1) > > And THAT’S what I mean about the blues! > > Love y’all! > > Q Fun clip - and yeah, his reference to “big lipped blues” is pretty funny. I love how he flips the guitar up over his shoulder during one lead break… ---
**Author:** ![I-VI-ii-V](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c89c15/32.png) [@I-VI-ii-V](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I-VI-ii-V)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1202 "2011-01-02T19:51:27Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Do y’all share chords to songs here? > > Thanks > > Q Lyrics and melodies can be copyrighted. Chord progressions cannot be copyrighted. That is why there are many jazz tunes with the same changes but different melodies. It was very common in the bebop era to take a standard like a show tune/popular song, create a new melody, and give it a new name. It also occurred with original tunes, “So What” for example. Sharing chords is fine. However, finding chords to songs is just a google search away. Analysis of chords and progressions is something I find more enjoyable than “How do you play…?” ---
**Author:** ![I-VI-ii-V](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c89c15/32.png) [@I-VI-ii-V](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I-VI-ii-V)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1203 "2011-01-02T20:02:28Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Did I ever give you this exercise that I make my students do? If I already have, please forgive a repetitious old man… > > Moving your left hand between chords. Say, for instance, that you’re changing between G and A. (I deliberately picked those two because the way most people finger them, they don’t use any fingers in common; no pivots, no guides and only one parallel. There’s a way to get some common fingers, but that’s another day’s ramble…) > > So, set the metronome and play in a slow four-four, one chord per bar. > > |: O | O 😑 > > Your left hand has the entire four beats to change chords. Once you are used to it and comfortable, change the rhythm to - > > |: d d | d d 😑 - still only one chord per bar. > > Now, you’re using a half note, two beats, to change chords. Once you are used to it and comfortable, change the rhythm to - > > |: ♩♩♩♩| ♩♩♩♩ 😑 - still only one chord per bar. > > Now, you’re using a quarter note, one beat, to change chords. Once you are used to it and comfortable, change the rhythm to - > > |: ♫♫♫♫ | ♫♫♫♫ 😑 - still only one chord per bar. > > Now, you’re using an eighth note, half a beat, to change chords. Once you are used to it and comfortable, change the rhythm to - > > |: ♬♬♬♬♬♬♬♬ | ♬♬♬♬♬♬♬♬ 😑 - still only one chord per bar. > > Now, you have a sixteenth note, one fourth of a beat, to change chords. > > The trick with this exercise is to use the long notes to give your fingers the time to sort themselves out. The less you consciously place them and the more you simply allow them to find their own way, the easier the progression to smaller and smaller note values will be. Eventually, your fingers will simply know the way better than your brain could ever tell them. This exercise is a lovely way to spend the next hockey game or basketball game on the telly… This is great advice. The one thing I do differently with my students is to mix up the quarters and eighths [2 bars per chord] before doing sixteenths. Patterns like this: |: ♩♫♩♩| ♩♫♩♩ 😑 |: ♩♩♫♩| ♩♩♫♩ 😑 |: ♩♩♫ ♫| ♩♩♫ ♫ 😑 |: ♩♫♩♫| ♩♫♩♫ 😑 |: ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ | ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ 😑 etc. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2011, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1204 "2011-01-03T07:04:12Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Do y’all share chords to songs here? We don’t, but this (legit!) site does: [linky](http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1205 "2011-01-03T20:54:40Z")
> [@I-VI-ii-V](#): > > |: ♩♫♩♩| ♩♫♩♩ 😑 > > |: ♩♩♫♩| ♩♩♫♩ 😑 > > |: ♩♩♫ ♫| ♩♩♫ ♫ 😑 > > |: ♩♫♩♫| ♩♫♩♫ 😑 > > |: ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ | ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ 😑 > > etc. Just curious: how do you do post messages like this with the musical notes? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1206 "2011-01-03T21:09:47Z")
From ‘Safari’ - Edit\>Special Characters\>Symbols\>Miscellaneous Symbols. About 14 characters from the end, you can find ♩♪♫♬♭♮ and ♯. I’ve no idea how to find it on other browsers. I have also used O for a whole note, d for a half note, l for a quarter note, Г (Russian ‘g’, found under Edit\>Special Characters\>European Scripts\>Cyrillic) and F . I’m sure smarter people than I know how to find these on some kind of ASCII map… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1207 "2011-01-03T21:23:25Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > From ‘Safari’ - Edit\>Special Characters\>Symbols\>Miscellaneous Symbols. About 14 characters from the end, you can find ♩♪♫♬♭♮ and ♯. I’ve no idea how to find it on other browsers. I find it curious that, in Firefox, some of those symbols show up just fine as musical notation, but the first and the fourth don’t. The first one comes up as a little box with “26 69” in it (26 in the “top” of the box, 69 in the “bottom” of the box), and the fourth one as a little box with “26 60” (or maybe 6C) in it. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1208 "2011-01-03T22:53:10Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I find it curious that, in Firefox, some of those symbols show up just fine as musical notation, but the first and the fourth don’t. The first one comes up as a little box with “26 69” in it (26 in the “top” of the box, 69 in the “bottom” of the box), and the fourth one as a little box with “26 60” (or maybe 6C) in it. Firefox on what platform/OS? I’m on Win7(x64) + FireFox (v3.6.13), and all the symbols appear as notes for me. **Ministre** , thanks for the tip. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1209 "2011-01-03T23:46:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Firefox on what platform/OS? I’m on Win7(x64) + FireFox (v3.6.13), and all the symbols appear as notes for me. Windows XP at the moment (my wife’s laptop, mine, which runs Vista, is in the shop). Same Firefox version as you have. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1210 "2011-01-04T00:41:22Z")
Huh. I guess you have a different version of that font than I do. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1211 "2011-01-04T00:55:19Z")
Works fine on Firefox 4 beta 8 under XP for me. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1212 "2011-01-04T02:01:05Z")
Could someone give me the bass run notes between Am and C and G? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![I-VI-ii-V](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c89c15/32.png) [@I-VI-ii-V](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I-VI-ii-V)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1213 "2011-01-04T07:33:25Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Could someone give me the bass run notes between Am and C and G? > > Thanks What do you mean by “bass run notes”? What type of music? Do you know your chord tones? Am = A C E - other notes you can use are B (to walk up to C), D (the 4 works over minor chords), and G (the b7) C = C E G - other notes you can use are D and A (the 2 and 6) G = G B D - other notes you can use A and E (the 2 and 6) These are the basics. Other notes can work if done correctly, such as chromatic non-chord tones resolving to chord tones. More importantly, rules are meant to be broken. If it sounds good, it works. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1214 "2011-01-06T16:58:23Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I’ve found that you rarely need to play a chord with all 6 strings, even in rock. For that grip above, I usually play the middle four strings. > > In jazz, things can get very economical, playing just 3 or even 2 notes of a chord, emphasizing the 3rd and 7th. Then you add in any alterations, particularly flat and sharp 5th and 9th on a dominant 7th chord. When you are playing 3 or 4 notes, instead of trying to span all 6, it opens up a huge number of possibilities for voicings. I play a plain vanilla major triad chord several different ways, depending on what inversion I want, what the bass player is playing, how fat I want the chord to sound, what other instruments are there and how they are playing. > > Let’s take the D7 example above. If I am comping on a big band chart with a piano player, I might approach it Freddie Green style and just stroke quarter notes. Otherwise I’m just battling for real estate with the pianist. I would play a D7 as > > x545xxx > > That’s 1st, 3rd, 7th. But that puts the root in the bass, and more often than not the bass player is on the same note. So I might invert to put the root on top > > xx453xx > > which you have play in position III. > > If the piano player is in the same register and I want to get up above him, I move to position X > > ```auto > > 1 111 > 0x010x > > ``` > > Omit the root on 6 if it clobbers the bass player. What’s left is 7th, 3rd, 5th. And you can almost always omit the 5th if you want to be austere. > > I played two gigs last month as part of a guitar/bass/flute trio. In that situation I need to fatten up the chords a little since there’s no piano, but I still stay away from doubling the bass, which is even more of a sore thumb in that situation. And I still almost never play 6-note chords. In a settign with other musicians, sure. But I play solo, and so I feel a need to “fatten” it up a bit. When there is no rhythm guitar or bass, you gotta fill it in yourself - big fat chords, arpeggios, fingerpicking counterpoints etc. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1215 "2011-01-06T16:59:44Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I’ve found that you rarely need to play a chord with all 6 strings, even in rock. For that grip above, I usually play the middle four strings. > > In jazz, things can get very economical, playing just 3 or even 2 notes of a chord, emphasizing the 3rd and 7th. Then you add in any alterations, particularly flat and sharp 5th and 9th on a dominant 7th chord. When you are playing 3 or 4 notes, instead of trying to span all 6, it opens up a huge number of possibilities for voicings. I play a plain vanilla major triad chord several different ways, depending on what inversion I want, what the bass player is playing, how fat I want the chord to sound, what other instruments are there and how they are playing. > > Let’s take the D7 example above. If I am comping on a big band chart with a piano player, I might approach it Freddie Green style and just stroke quarter notes. Otherwise I’m just battling for real estate with the pianist. I would play a D7 as > > x545xxx > > That’s 1st, 3rd, 7th. But that puts the root in the bass, and more often than not the bass player is on the same note. So I might invert to put the root on top > > xx453xx > > which you have play in position III. > > If the piano player is in the same register and I want to get up above him, I move to position X > > ```auto > > 1 111 > 0x010x > > ``` > > Omit the root on 6 if it clobbers the bass player. What’s left is 7th, 3rd, 5th. And you can almost always omit the 5th if you want to be austere. > > I played two gigs last month as part of a guitar/bass/flute trio. In that situation I need to fatten up the chords a little since there’s no piano, but I still stay away from doubling the bass, which is even more of a sore thumb in that situation. And I still almost never play 6-note chords. In a setting with other musicians, sure. But I play solo, and so I feel a need to “fatten” it up a bit. When there is no rhythm guitar, piano, or bass, you gotta fill it in yourself - big fat chords, arpeggios, fingerpicking counterpoints etc. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1216 "2011-01-07T13:13:32Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I’ve found that you rarely need to play a chord with all 6 strings, even in rock. For that grip above, I usually play the middle four strings. > > In jazz, things can get very economical, playing just 3 or even 2 notes of a chord, emphasizing the 3rd and 7th. Then you add in any alterations, particularly flat and sharp 5th and 9th on a dominant 7th chord. When you are playing 3 or 4 notes, instead of trying to span all 6, it opens up a huge number of possibilities for voicings. I play a plain vanilla major triad chord several different ways, depending on what inversion I want, what the bass player is playing, how fat I want the chord to sound, what other instruments are there and how they are playing. > > Let’s take the D7 example above. If I am comping on a big band chart with a piano player, I might approach it Freddie Green style and just stroke quarter notes. Otherwise I’m just battling for real estate with the pianist. I would play a D7 as > > x545xxx > > That’s 1st, 3rd, 7th. But that puts the root in the bass, and more often than not the bass player is on the same note. So I might invert to put the root on top > > xx453xx > > which you have play in position III. > > If the piano player is in the same register and I want to get up above him, I move to position X > > ```auto > > 1 111 > 0x010x > > ``` > > Omit the root on 6 if it clobbers the bass player. What’s left is 7th, 3rd, 5th. And you can almost always omit the 5th if you want to be austere. > > I played two gigs last month as part of a guitar/bass/flute trio. In that situation I need to fatten up the chords a little since there’s no piano, but I still stay away from doubling the bass, which is even more of a sore thumb in that situation. And I still almost never play 6-note chords. I don’t know why I didn’t pause and read this harder until \*\*SteveG1’s \*\*comments on it. Really interesting stuff. So different from rock, where the chords are typically simple, everything is really anchored on the Key note/Tonic being rooted in the bass and the guitar, bass and drums all chugging together. By the same token, I agree with **SteveG1** - I am exploring filling in space while playing by myself using hybrid picking, where I hit bass notes with my flatpick while filling in the mids and highs with counterpoint picking using my middle and ring fingers. I get partial chords all over the place, but usually because I am transitioning from chord to chord while laying down some picking pattern. I go for a lot of drone tones on open strings while I move partial chord shapes up the neck. For example, I am working on the transition from the I chord (E) to the IV chord (A) that James Burton does with Mystery Train [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cH5RGirn0k), about 7 seconds in. Lots of partical chords but a very filled-in sound… ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1217 "2011-01-07T15:50:04Z")
The other day, I mentioned I have this as “Ultimate Guitar”. It should have been the emedia guitar method volume I instead. This is a very early version and is not compatible with this computer (it’s saying that if I need 86 or 64 bit contact the software publisher). I had it loaded on an earlier computer and it worked fine, but this is a gaming computer which came as a 64bit that we changed to 32 so that I could play warcraft. If anyone wants this program (there are 2 CD-ROMS), I’ll be happy to send it you as a gift. Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1218 "2011-01-08T15:36:57Z")
Thanks for the offer, Quasi, but I’m good. However, today’s Musician’s Friend Stupid Deal of the Day was a pedal. So I bought it. > **[Guitars | Musician's Friend](https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars)** > > Shop the best selection of popular guitars: ✅ guaranteed low price, ✅ free shipping, ✅ 0% financing, ✅ 8% back in rewards. It looks shiny. And for the price, I mean, how could I lose? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1219 "2011-01-09T18:46:08Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > today’s Musician’s Friend Stupid Deal of the Day was a pedal. So I bought it. > [Guitars | Musician's Friend](http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/DeltaLab-DGFX1-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Pedal?sku=150615) > It looks shiny. And for the price, I mean, how could I lose? Looks like a fun pedal - volume/wah pedal, fx (flangers, echo, yada yada), tuner, drum machine, metronome. Let us know how how you like it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1220 "2011-01-10T13:58:27Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Thanks for the offer, Quasi, but I’m good. > However, today’s Musician’s Friend Stupid Deal of the Day was a pedal. So I bought it. > [Guitars | Musician's Friend](http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/DeltaLab-DGFX1-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Pedal?sku=150615) > It looks shiny. And for the price, I mean, how could I lose? Have fun - good intro to a variety of effects… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=62)