# The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172 "2010-01-31T23:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 71
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1402 "2011-03-10T16:01:16Z")
Guitars with the road worn finish - they’re actually replicants, with false memories implanted to make up for their short life span… For me, the finish is the last component to fret over - if they made a Hello, Kitty guitar that sounded as good as my Tele, I guess I’d put up with the embarrassing paint job. I’d still prefer a nice, natural tobacco sunburst or blonde ash, though. And the ‘road worn’ models just scream that the player is looking for some respectability that he hasn’t earned. Do you folks remember the story about the origin of the coloured belts for kung fu, karate, tae kwan do, etc.? Supposedly back in the shaolin days, everybody started with the same white belt. Over the years, you’d wash and ultimately replace bits of your uniform, but the belt wouldn’t need replacing. After a while, it would start to get kinda grubby, getting darker and darker until it was black. Little bit longer, and it would start to fray, getting white stripes where the material had worn through. The story is probably too good to be true, but the parable is - a beginner buying a brand new axe with the road worn finish that makes it look like it has been played a lot for years strikes me as being like someone wearing a black belt to your first karate class; it’s begging to get your ass kicked… ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1403 "2011-03-10T16:05:23Z")
Now [here](http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/121696-closeup-photo-ed-bickerts-tele.html)’s a road worn finish… Most of that comes from Ed’s habit of forgetting his axe in the trunk of the car when he got to his hotel/motel room at 3AM. And in case you don’t make it to the bottom of that thread - > [@](#): > > That is for sure Ed Bickert’s Telecaster. > You can tell because it has an Allen Key taped to the body. Apparently this was done by the guys at the twelfth fret guitar shop in Toronto, so that he could make some kind of adjustment if he needed too. Bickert apparently left the Allen key taped on because he thought it was a part of the work they had done and didn’t understand that it could be taken off (true story). ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1404 "2011-03-10T17:23:01Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > \ > > if they made a Hello, Kitty guitar that sounded as good as my Tele, I guess I’d put up with the embarrassing paint job. > > \ [Here ya go.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://buybestguitartoday.com/_cache/Fender%2520Guitar/img/y_images_Fender%2520Guitar%2520Hello%2520Kitty_0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://buybestguitartoday.com/Fender-Guitar/Fender-Guitar-Hello-Kitty/&usg=__URI48GfwXpxbWiqR4_hQDD5HiEM=&h=135&w=215&sz=5&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=qkUBEEh9JhfEPM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=172&ei=nQh5Tf_kMqqL0QGpgKn5Aw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddaisy%2Brock%2Bhello%2Bkitty%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4GGLL_enUS388US389%26biw%3D994%26bih%3D796%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=317&oei=nQh5Tf_kMqqL0QGpgKn5Aw&page=1&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0&tx=77&ty=56)😉 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1405 "2011-03-11T03:46:34Z")
It doesn’t sound that great. It’s gig-able, I’m told, if you put a decent (GFS) pickup in it, and I know a few guys in punk bands who have done so. Because there is nothing more manly than playing a Hello Kitty guitar in a punk band. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1406 "2011-03-11T12:26:59Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > That is for sure Ed Bickert’s Telecaster. [Ed Bickert](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxPBvDYVX2w). [Homer] Oh Telecaster, is there nothing you can’t do? [/Homer] ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1407 "2011-03-11T13:05:43Z")
Just a note: I had a great time with my drummer last night, White Stripes style, just him and me. We are adding a guitar-based version of Poker Face to our set list for an upcoming gig so we needed to work out my parts (it helps to have a pro arranger like him in the band). We got the parts nailed down (it sounds great rocked out, btw), and had a bit of time for some fun, so I just started playing songs that we don’t play as a band, but we both know in a kinda-sorta way - and the guitar part is one where I can “fill in the sound” - i.e., use drone strings or a bass-line and fill-chords comping approach to cover more sonic real estate vs. a guitar part needing to fit in with a band. We played a bunch of Stones like Can’t You Hear Me Knockin’, Happy, Tumblin’ Dice; AC/DC like Girls Got Rhythm, Zep, Girlfriend by Matthew Sweet (which I do in Open G), Twice as Hard and Jealous Again by the Black Crowes, some Jet - oh and Jungle Love by Steve Miller which is a damn fun riff to play in Open A (capo’d up Open G) - damn that was fun. And I do this pizzicato thing with a simple chord progression that sounds like the synthy intro to The Who’s Won’t Get Fooled Again, and he would take these long tumbling drum runs, starting a few chords back to come plunging into a crescendo by the time I was back on the 1 of the riff, and then explode into chorus - if you’ve never played with a Moon-style drummer, it is a weird wonderful experience - YOU have to anchor the straight-up rhythm while he pushes and pulls the time, lagging back on a fill like Ray Charles singing America the Beautiful, then surging to catch up and punctuate end beat. Really great communication and just fun as all hell. Haven’t had one of those in a while and lordie did I need it. Just thought I’d share. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1408 "2011-03-11T18:16:06Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://www.mcknightguitars.com/soundports.html](http://www.mcknightguitars.com/soundports.html) > This is what I hear referred to as a ‘sound port’. It’s a hole on the side of the guitar. It allows the player to hear things more clearly, but I’m of the understanding that it also makes the actual guitar considerably louder. > > I’m a bit curious what something like this would do to a 335. Oh - I forgot about this and am just getting back to it. Okay - you are referring to a Sound Port. They are a “cool” feature to have on custom-made “bespoke” custom-made guitar like by Tim McKnight, the guy you linked to and frequent contributor to the Acoustic Guitar Forum. They are kinda like getting cuff buttons that function on a bespoke-tailored custom-made suit - as much to show it was custom made as anything. They do NOT increase the volume of the guitar overall. However, they DO increase the volume that the PLAYER hears, because some of the sound is now directed straight up to your face via the side sound port instead of just coming out of the sound hole and curling up your way ambiently. There is much geeked-out debate as to if and how they vary the tone of the guitar - i.e., are certain frequencies “escaping” out the sound port, changing the tone profile coming out of the main hole - but that is not a volume issue. So, to answer your question - a sound port would have NO effect on a 335 because, unless you are playing unplugged, you are relying on the sound through the amp, not the sound of the unplugged guitar. And, to be clear - the f-holes on a 335 aren’t really there to affect the unplugged tone of the guitar - IMHO, they are more of an artifact of the fact that this semi-hollow design was meant to look like a traditional archtop which does have functional f-holes - witness the fact that many of BB Kings Gibson Lucille models don’t come with F-holes in an attempt to reduce feedback… …all I got for now. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1409 "2011-03-11T18:28:17Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > custom-made “bespoke” custom-made guitar :smack: ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1410 "2011-03-11T19:50:19Z")
Actually, and I can’t cite it, but I recall that someone took a mike to a guitar, pre and post sound-porting, as a bit of a test, and the guitar was actually something like five decibels louder at ten feet distance after the hole was drilled out. (The F-holes, yes, are a bit of an artifact.) My thought was, assuming that the above holds true, if you were to play two identical classical steel-stringed guitars with jazz pickups on top, if one had a sound-port, how would the sound of the guitar change? And if there were a change, how would adding one to a semi-hollow change things? Do the wings on a semi actually do anything at all to the sound? Why not just take them off? You know, that sort of thinking. Also, man, this book on guitar rigs (Dave Hunter) is really good. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1411 "2011-03-11T20:30:16Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Actually, and I can’t cite it, but I recall that someone took a mike to a guitar, pre and post sound-porting, as a bit of a test, and the guitar was actually something like five decibels louder at ten feet distance after the hole was drilled out. (The F-holes, yes, are a bit of an artifact.) Not in any way directed at you - but I would call bullshit about the report you read. 5 decibels? NFW. > [@](#): > > My thought was, assuming that the above holds true, if you were to play two identical classical steel-stringed guitars with jazz pickups on top, if one had a sound-port, how would the sound of the guitar change? And if there were a change, how would adding one to a semi-hollow change things? Do the wings on a semi actually do anything at all to the sound? Why not just take them off? > > You know, that sort of thinking. “How would the sound change?” I stand by my assertions above for a steel string acoustic (“classical” per your post I quote, would imply nylon) - a sound hole would yield louder tones for the player, no appreciable volume change from an audience member at a reasonable distance, and the tone _may_ change subtly due to redirected frequencies through the sound hold, but probably only in a way that dogs could hear. The function of wings on a semi-hollow is different - in effect, they provide a chambered body on the guitar. The ultimate purpose of the body of an electric guitar is to work with the strings as they (the strings) are “read” by the pickups to create the signal that is ultimately amplified into sound. A chamber is going to dampen/absorb some frequencies while allowing others to stay strong, thereby affecting how a string vibrates. So two exact-same guitars - one truly solid and one chambered - are going to drive different string vibration patterns because the system of wood, plastic, metal and chambers will interact differently with the strings vs. a system of wood, plastic and metal - so the strings will vibrate differently which the pickups pick up. In practical terms, semi-hollows tend to have less bitey highs - an overall emphasis on mids. Those are for 335’s and such where the wings are big. For a “semi-hollow” Fender like a Tele Deluxe - the general consensus is that the hollow bit functions to look cool - it still sounds like a solid body… > [@](#): > > Also, man, this book on guitar rigs (Dave Hunter) is really good. No surprise - everything I own by him has been chocked full of good info… ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1412 "2011-03-11T20:46:51Z")
[brag mode] Just bought a 1968 Gibson B15 acoustic, it’s in near-pristine condition and sounds great. Mrs Gargoyle’s best eyelash-batting and hair tossing probably trimmed $200 off what I would have otherwise paid 😃 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1413 "2011-03-11T20:50:47Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > [brag mode] > Just bought a 1968 Gibson B15 acoustic, it’s in near-pristine condition and sounds great. Mrs Gargoyle’s best eyelash-batting and hair tossing probably trimmed $200 off what I would have otherwise paid 😃 Total yay! I have an earlier-generation of the same small-bodied mahogany Gibson - an LG-2 was the name at the time (which is in turn the generation after the L-00 from the 30’s…). These are great guitars, with a wonderful warm tone that can handle a wide variety of styles. Play it in great health and you owe your wife for the discount!! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1414 "2011-03-12T15:09:18Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Not in any way directed at you - but I would call bullshit about the report you read. 5 decibels? NFW. [http://www.mcknightguitars.com/soundports.html](http://www.mcknightguitars.com/soundports.html) Whadda know! It was right in the link I found with the pictures. Towards the bottom. Five decibels at the port, for one, ten at another, and so on. It wasn’t exactly how I remembered it, but that’s clearly what I was thinking of. > [@](#): > > We measured 10 feet from the sound hole and measured 82.1 and 83.5 with the port closed and then open. Next we measured the volume at 20 feet and recorded 68.3 and 69.9 db with the port closed and then opened. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1415 "2011-03-12T15:13:24Z")
Okay - sounds like I gotta chase one down and check this out. Harumph. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1416 "2011-03-12T15:20:34Z")
On this [link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyOmGDoVVnQ#t=1m38), despite the gentleman (the luthier, perhaps? That could account for the 1:38 of needless detail about the recording setup. 😉 ) telling me there’s a tremendous difference, I can’t hear it. At all. In this [video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhoQGGlwGjk), I know that guitar has a sound port, right around Karl Marino’s right armpit. What I don’t know is whether or not he has it open or closed - Florian put a sliding partition there that could close it off. I do remember it made a tremendous difference to what I could hear as I played it. I loved that guitar. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1417 "2011-03-12T18:40:10Z")
Notice what the link specifically says: the round hole was not as loud as the distorted one. Given that, and given the survival of Willy Nelson’s Trigger despite the holes in it, and a few other guitars I know of that are played to lace and ribbons, I’m wondering a lot if there can be some improvements we’ve never seen. Like… what would a ‘faceless’ guitar sound like? Maybe with only a light rim? These are the things that wander through my mind. And, of course, the shifted soundhole on the second example, come to think of it, would be an entirely different, but related section of thought. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1418 "2011-03-14T01:26:03Z")
(Sorry if this has been discussed before, but searching “amplifier” returned too many hits) Having picked up a new electric, I realize that my 20-year-old Peavey Rage is not the best sounding amp, and has very few features you might find in a newer amp… I tend to play acoustic, and do not have pick-ups in my acoustics, so only need an amp for my electric guitar… I only play at home, and don’t want to pay a lot of money for a new amp. I have a $100 gift card, and don’t mind spending another $25-$50, so can anyone recommend a decent guitar amp in the $100-150 range? [This Spider amp](http://www.amazon.com/Line-Spider-IV-15-Amplifier/dp/B002GYWBIM) has pretty positive reviews… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1419 "2011-03-14T01:48:30Z")
I have a 15-watt [Peavey Vypyr](http://www.peavey.com/products/instamplifiers/guitaramps/vypyr/) modeling amp, which I picked up at my local music store for about $100. I like it a lot – it sounds good, and has a ton of features. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1420 "2011-03-14T10:29:34Z")
Spyder is good. I get really good results out of my .05-5w Vox DA-5, too. I’ve been playing on .05w, and the batteries have lasted for months. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1421 "2011-03-14T13:04:50Z")
Sorry I can’t help \*\*phungi \*\*- I haven’t check out the currently available lines at the local GC lately… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=70) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=72)