# The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172 "2010-01-31T23:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 98
**Author:** ![Clockwork\_Jackal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Clockwork\_Jackal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clockwork_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1942 "2011-08-19T23:10:34Z")
Hmmm actually Amazon doesn’t sell them. Because they seem to be uber expensive. I think I was thinking of Mahalo. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1943 "2011-08-20T00:11:00Z")
> [@Clockwork\_Jackal](#): > > Hmmm actually Amazon doesn’t sell them. Because they seem to be uber expensive. I think I was thinking of Mahalo. Yes Kamakas are the real deal, as they say, and have an historic name like Gibson does with guitars so there is a bump there, too. For $400 you can find a cool old uke I am sure - if you can try them. I love vintage stuff. Speaking of which, Richard “I kinda knew he played guitar” Gere is selling his collection. Jeez - what good stuff! A pre-war Martin D-28, a '53 Tele, a '54 (first year) Strat, one of Albert King’s original Flying V’s, a D’Angelico - real heavy duty stuff. The pre-auction estimates (I don’t know how to link to it - Christie’s) seem low, as is typical. I’ve never heard him play but assume he is more wannabe than player - but would love to be proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1944 "2011-08-20T14:47:28Z")
One guy who isn’t a wannabe is Bernie Williams, by the way. https://www.youtube.com/embed/74U9ps86pRo?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=AVGxdCwVVULXeD69STKCoHV8sC1WnlljRw ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1945 "2011-08-21T16:58:12Z")
I have a real dumb question. When talking about PUs, what exactly does “hot” mean? I have a Tele and a Strat. Using the same amp setting and the same volume setting and PU on each guitar, the Tele is much louder. Is this what hot means? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1946 "2011-08-21T17:54:30Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > I have a real dumb question. When talking about PUs, what exactly does “hot” mean? I have a Tele and a Strat. Using the same amp setting and the same volume setting and PU on each guitar, the Tele is much louder. Is this what hot means? That’s what I take it to mean – higher output vs lower output. Note that one is not better than the other, it’s a personal preference. One thought on methodology: “same volume setting” on each guitar may or may not be a proper comparison for volume and tone settings less than full. Turn up the volume on each guitar all the way, turn up the tone all the way, then compare the output of each guitar. That way you’re (mostly) taking the pots and caps out of the mix when you compare so that it’s more of an apples-to-apples comparison, since those components may be different across different guitars. ---
**Author:** ![Clockwork\_Jackal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Clockwork\_Jackal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clockwork_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1947 "2011-08-21T18:05:23Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Yes Kamakas are the real deal, as they say, and have an historic name like Gibson does with guitars so there is a bump there, too. For $400 you can find a cool old uke I am sure - if you can try them. I love vintage stuff. A friend of mine has a uke from Lanikai made of spalted mango. It looks and sounds gorgeous. He’s obviously not interested in selling, but, I wonder… How is their reputation? If I were simply to order one from my local music shop, or even Amazon, what are the chances that I would get a decent uke? Or should I try out the individual instrument first? My local shop also has a Fender uke, tenor sized. It’s nice, but not great. And I don’t think I want to spend money on a new uke unless it’s **great**. You know what I mean? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1948 "2011-08-22T04:36:03Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > That’s what I take it to mean – higher output vs lower output. That’s correct. Increasing the amount of copper wire that makes up the coil increases the output. So, in pickup-talk, “overwound” is a synonym for “hot” or “loud”. Note that increasing the output _does not just increase the volume_, it tends to increase the midrange at the expense of the highs and lows. The result is a matter of preference, but to many ears - mine for instance - overwound pickups sound muddy. However, there’s a “sweet spot” for pickups: too loud sounds bad, too quiet also sounds bad. It’s a Goldilocks thing. And the number of windings isn’t the only factor: the _gauge_ of the wire and the strength of the magnet(s) and also have measurable effects (in other words, not imaginary “mojo”) on the sound of a pickup. So making a pickup “hot” by increasing the number of windings isn’t the same as making it “hot” by using a more powerful magnet. It’s a balancing act. Ceramic magnets are usually stronger than magnetic alloys like AlNiCo, which is why ceramic magnets sound more “harsh” and less “sweet” to my ears. Ceramics are cheaper, which is why cheap guitar pickups usually have ceramic magnets. However, ceramic-magnet pickups don’t _always_ sound bad, and they’re not _always_ the worst option. _Well designed_ ceramic-magnet pickups can and do sound great. Some people like loud pickups because they make it easier to overdrive an amplifier. It works, but to my ears the drawback is that it’s a less pleasant sound. I’d rather use quieter pickups and a clean preamp to boost the level going into an amp than achieve amp overdrive by having loud but bad-sounding pickups. Like everything, what works **for you** is what’s important, there’s no rule-of-thumb that works for everyone. Gah. I’m such a pickup nerd, just mentioning the things provokes an hour-long monologue from me… ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1949 "2011-08-22T05:02:01Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Gah. I’m such a pickup nerd, just mentioning the things provokes an hour-long monologue from me… That’s why I didn’t delve into details in my post, I figured a pickup nerd would be along shortly.😛 I agree with everything you wrote – boosting pickup output is one approach to tone, but there are approaches that work best with lower output pickups. I prefer the latter, although I’ve recently gotten a little hooked on P90 tone, so that position may be evolving. Tone is definitely a journey, not a destination. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1950 "2011-08-22T13:18:25Z")
Thanks you guys. I compared them using the method suggested and the Tele was a little louder. I was just curious as to why I needed to turn up the volume on the Strat. Now I know. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1951 "2011-08-22T13:58:20Z")
What about the gauge of the magnets? I’ve got 1/4th inch alnicos in my bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Clockwork\_Jackal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Clockwork\_Jackal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clockwork_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1952 "2011-08-23T12:39:16Z")
So, I had my local music store order me one of [these](http://www.amazon.com/Lanikai-SM-T-Custom-Spalted-Ukulele/dp/B001V5K2QU/ref=sr_1_11?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1314103039&sr=1-11). It was more expensive than ordering it from amazon, but if I try it and don’t like it, I can change my mind. At least that’s the theory. It comes in next week. Wish me luck all. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1953 "2011-08-23T17:18:47Z")
I have limited connectivity so will keep it brief. CJ can’t follow the link but paying a bit more for easy returnability is very smart. Good luck. CB - Shakester did a good job and I very much prefer lower output p’ups and letting the amp do the heavy lifting for overdrive. One thing not mentiones is pickup distance to the strings. The Tele and Strat pups could be same output but one is further away from the strings. This is a big deal for loudness AND tone. Each type of p’up has it’s sweet spot - it’s simple to adjust but even easier to screw up. Bill Lawrence uses the Nickel rule: high E should be 1 US nickel above the pole piece; low E about 2 nickels. Adjust the neck pickup height to match volume with bridge (neck pups are always louder because of string travel so end up lower vs bridge.) Pickup magnet type and strength matters, but less so vs hotness of windings and pickup height. Gotta run - back to vacation! ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1954 "2011-08-25T05:49:57Z")
Damn, I missed the whole pickup distance thing. Kudos to Wordman, as always. I’ve also never heard of the Nickle Rule. And now I see that pretty much all of my pickups don’t follow it more than casually and I’ll be fiddling with pickups and a phillips screwdriver for a coupla days to see what I think of that rule. Damn you, **Wordman**! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1955 "2011-08-25T06:32:00Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Damn, I missed the whole pickup distance thing. Kudos to Wordman, as always. I’ve also never heard of the Nickle Rule. And now I see that pretty much all of my pickups don’t follow it more than casually and I’ll be fiddling with pickups and a phillips screwdriver for a coupla days to see what I think of that rule. Damn you, **Wordman**! 😉 😉 Shakester - what’s your POV given your experience? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1956 "2011-08-25T19:46:07Z")
**WordMan** (or interested parties): does the “nickel rule” apply to high(er) output pickups? Wasn’t Bill Lawrence a dyed-in-wool low-output single-coil guy? Does his rule apply to humbuckers, P90s, etc, or do they need more elbow room/distance from the string, to avoid magnetism killing your sustain or other problems? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1957 "2011-08-25T23:51:50Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > **WordMan** (or interested parties): does the “nickel rule” apply to high(er) output pickups? Wasn’t Bill Lawrence a dyed-in-wool low-output single-coil guy? Does his rule apply to humbuckers, P90s, etc, or do they need more elbow room/distance from the string, to avoid magnetism killing your sustain or other problems? Still limited connectivity. You know, I don’t know; Shakester - you got this one? I definitely started there with my PAF 'buckers and p-90’s but am sure I tweaked it from there. Try his website (make sure it is HIS website - not the company that licensed his name some years ago - iirc it will be obvious. He has all that pickup 101 stuff there. Maybe also try Lindy Fralin’s site. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1958 "2011-08-26T10:35:55Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > **WordMan** (or interested parties): does the “nickel rule” apply to high(er) output pickups? Wasn’t Bill Lawrence a dyed-in-wool low-output single-coil guy? Does his rule apply to humbuckers, P90s, etc, or do they need more elbow room/distance from the string, to avoid magnetism killing your sustain or other problems? Bill Lawrence L-500 pickups are high-output 'buckers, and they’re legendary among metal players. They’re still made by Bill’s company [Wilde pickups](http://wildepickups.com/), and I think there’s a rip-off version made by the guy that cheated Bill out of his own name and now sells pickups as “Bill Lawrence USA”. Anyway, I know that a “nickel” is a US 5c coin, but I’m not familiar enough with US coins to know exactly how thick that is. I’d say the width of a low-denomination coin is probably too close, but I’d also say the best thing to do is to sit down with the guitar on your lap and a screwdriver in your hand and try adjusting the pickup height till you’ve got it in a place that sounds good to you. It’s easy and you can’t break anything doing it, and you’ll find it does make a difference to the overall sound. I’d be wary of putting the pickups too close to the strings, personally. Louder isn’t necessarily better, you’re looking for a sweet spot. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1959 "2011-08-27T13:08:53Z")
[http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110825/NEWS01/308250049/Gibson-Guitar-raided-lips-zipped](http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110825/NEWS01/308250049/Gibson-Guitar-raided-lips-zipped) Gibson got raided for using illegal ebony. > **[Acoustic Guitar - could get you in serious trouble.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=622022)** > > This must be a big problem for musicians that tour. Wall Street Journal article And someone made a thread about it while I was away. My brazilian acoustic has no paperwork… ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1960 "2011-08-29T23:10:10Z")
> [@boomerwang](#): > > Hi, I’m the guy with the ripped hand, asking about alt. tunings a while back. Just an update: my finger works almost 100% now, and I’m playing again. 🆒 Also wondering if there’s a lyricist thread here somewhere? (I couldn’t find one, but my google-fu is patchy at best). No, we’ve never had a lyricist thread, to the best of my knowledge. There is a [Poetry Sweatshop](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=621769) going on right now, if that interests you. Tell you what - I’ll start a lyrics thread once the Anthology Thread is published, and if that isn’t soon enough for you, why don’t you start one? I’m a terrible one to ask - some of the poets I hang out with write lyrics, but I almost never do… ---
**Author:** ![Clockwork\_Jackal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Clockwork\_Jackal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clockwork_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172/1961 "2011-08-30T15:26:36Z")
You know, I think I’ve gotten farther in two months of playing my uke than two years of playing my guitar. Really really enjoying this instrument. So, I ordered my uke from the music store. It came in while I was doin my CL stuff at Folk Fest. I tried it out in the music store Monday. It sounds awesome! And it looks awesome too! The spalted mango looks really pretty! I’ll post pics in the next day or so. Now, the only question I need to decide is, do I string it with low G? I’m thinking I should try it out. What do y’all think? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=97) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-guitar-thread/527172.md?page=99)