# The Great Ongoing Revolving Speakership of the 118th Congress {Mike Johnson is new speaker as of 2023-10-25} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 12, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432 "2023-10-12T02:05:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/561 "2023-10-18T23:15:25Z")
That whole 15-vote thing McCarthy did was an embarrassment. This way they have more time to strong-arm the recalcitrant members of the caucus, in private. They can also let Fox News do a little of the lifting by doxxing those holdouts. These things take a little time, man! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/562 "2023-10-18T23:17:58Z")
I would call this whole Republican shit show an embarrassment, but they could at least try to condense it. ---
**Author:** ![Digger11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Digger11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger11)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2023, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/563 "2023-10-18T23:52:18Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The parties still have wings, but the definitions changed. Basically, every single Republican is to the right of every Democrat. As a result, the interactions, even between “moderates” and “moderates,” are limited. The Republican Party, as a whole, has demonized the Democratic Party, as a whole, as its enemy. Little to no incentive exists to work bipartisanly because the majority of Republicans are so far right they can barely work with their own “moderates.” And those are so far right that Democrats would have to give up every principle to go along. To add to this, the Democrats scarcely have conservatives anymore. Among other issues, they’ve done their best to eradicate ALL opposition to abortion within their caucus, and very nearly succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/564 "2023-10-19T00:00:41Z")
That’s only because Democrats believe in freedom of choice. Not wanting an abortion for oneself does not mean that no one else should be allowed the choice. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/565 "2023-10-19T00:27:49Z")
Reporting indicates that things will not be looking up for Jordan tomorrow. > Republicans have [privately admitted](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/16/jim-jordan-house-speaker/?itid=lk_inline_manual_11) they will start to flip their support if Jordan can’t clinch the speakership, and more GOP lawmakers are expected to oppose Jordan on Thursday. Some Republicans have worked among themselves to ensure that the number of votes against Jordan grows in each round of voting, according to two lawmakers familiar with the effort who spoke on the condition of anonymity to detail private conversations, recognizing that Jordan will not back down until it is clear a majority of Republicans do not want him to lead their conference. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/566 "2023-10-19T00:31:40Z")
Only opposition to the right to choose. Not moral or ethical opposition - plenty of Democrats believe it’s morally wrong to abort in some or most cases, but they don’t want the government to step in by force to take away the individual right to choose. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/567 "2023-10-19T00:33:11Z")
I just saw an interview with New York rep Mike Lawler. He’s totally anti-Jordan so one might think he’s a reasonable member of the party to deal with. He finished by attacking the people who were responsible for this mess: Matt Gaetz, AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Hakeem Jeffries. Any time you wonder why Democrats refuse to help out Republicans, think about how thoroughly indecent the “reasonable” ones are. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/568 "2023-10-19T00:34:26Z")
> [@Digger11](#): > > To add to this, the Democrats scarcely have conservatives anymore. Among other issues, they’ve done their best to eradicate ALL opposition to abortion within their caucus, and very nearly succeeded. Blanket opposition to legal abortion isn’t a conservative position; it’s a reactionary one. Pick a different example. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/569 "2023-10-19T00:47:57Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > He finished by attacking the people who were responsible for this mess: Matt Gaetz, AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Hakeem Jeffries. Well, one out of four ain’t that bad… why those three? Sure they can be thorns in the side of the gOP, but the Speakership? > [@Smapti](#): > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/Olivia_Beavers/status/1714426340084986074) This is what they have come to- threats. Not just to the Politician, but now to his family. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/570 "2023-10-19T01:25:27Z")
I just love that the Freedom Caucus is trying to convince us that it is because of the moderate Republican that we don’t have a Speaker. Who ran McCarthy out? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/571 "2023-10-19T01:25:53Z")
Thos was from waaay upthread a full 7 _hours_ ago. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > > > [@CoolHandCox](#): > > > > > > Has there _ever_ been a non-member Speaker of the House? Would that ever be a realistic possibility these days? > > > > No and no. > > Strikes me, as a complete outsider, that the only way it could happen would be if there were rules changes to strip out the legislative agenda powers from the Speaker, and turn the position into an impartial chair, like in parliamentary systems. > > The Speaker currently controls the political agenda. A non-elected Speaker wouldn’t have the political legitimacy to do so. > > But if those legislative agenda functions were transferred to the Majority Leader, it solves the problem. The Majority Leader would have the political clout and legitimacy to decide what legislative matters should come forward. > … > But, as Exapno\_Mapcase says, chances of any of that are extremely low. A good idea in general. It occurs to me that if somehow the rules changed and this was put into effect, all that would happen is the Freedumb caucus would aim all their fire at the R majority leader (or R minority leader in other less R-ful Congresses) instead of the Speaker. The deep point is the FC refuses to be led, refuses to play on any team, and when all else fails, simply refuses, period. Trying to come up with alternate management mechanisms for a delegation of skilled leaders and mature followers fails utterly when there are no mature followers willing to follow. Which is not a criticism of your fine legislative procedural thinking. Just of the f\*\*\*ed up collection of scurvy bozos presently elected to Congress. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/572 "2023-10-19T01:40:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > He finished by attacking the people who were responsible for this mess: Matt Gaetz, AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Hakeem Jeffries. > > Any time you wonder why Democrats refuse to help out Republicans, think about how thoroughly indecent the “reasonable” ones are. Meh. There are statements that have to be made if you want to build consensus within your caucus, especially if the consensus you want to build is going to be one that requires some bipartisanship. Pro forma boilerplate. You expect any House Republican to say this is completely GOP dysfunction and that the Democrats are, in order to get _some_ work done, saving the day by supporting an expansion of the GOP leader pro tem’s powers? They need to save however much face they can. Or at least try to. I don’t expect anything else. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/573 "2023-10-19T01:42:11Z")
I _love_ how they turn AOC into the Boogeyman. Because she’s in a completely safe Democratic district. She’s our tank. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/574 "2023-10-19T01:48:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, one out of four ain’t that bad… why those three? Sure they can be thorns in the side of the gOP, but the Speakership? Same question here. I can generally puzzle out the twisted logic of conservative politics but not this one. How is this remotely AOC’s fault, aside from the fact that she exists? And how could she possibly solve it (other than to stop existing)? Who exactly do they think she’s going to vote for? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/575 "2023-10-19T01:53:42Z")
The thing that hits me with that quote is that Ocasio and Omar as far as I can tell had, like, jack to do with provoking this specific situation. It’s not like _they_ would have been the ones expected to provide the extra “present” votes to keep McCarthy there if there _had_ been a compromise. > [@DWMarch](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > why those three? Sure they can be thorns in the side of the gOP, but the Speakership? > > Same question here. Thinking about it a little more: the messaging is that Jeffreys is in the thrall of the Extreme Woke Socialist Squad and that is why he won’t pull the R’s nuts out of the fire. Because _of course_ it should be any True American’s duty to pull the R’s nuts out of the fire. Gaetz & Jordan, my speculation is they were basically playing a game of **counting** on the Dems to save K-Mac’s skin so that they could proceed to **even more intensely** attack him and the whole “Establishment” GOP possibly positioning themselves for bigger things if not now, then in 2025. And of course on that if it came to it, upon seeing Kevin go down in flames, everyone else would just cower in fear and do what they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/576 "2023-10-19T02:13:47Z")
Others got in before me, but they’re saying the same thing. Lawler might be expected to lay blame on Democrats, and doing so would be just politics. Not a way to achieve any cooperation, but politics. Instead, he demonized the favorite boogeymen of the right. Pulled them out of the sewer recesses of his mind just to fling their names out for his supporters to pile more hate upon. Untrue, Unnecessary, and Evil, the three Republican Muses. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/577 "2023-10-19T02:19:17Z")
AOC has been saying mean things about Republicans and the mess they are in, that they caused on themselves. All they have to do is invoke her name and it sends the dummies in droves to Fleece-a-Rube dot com. Ya can’t pass-up a chance to make a little money. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/578 "2023-10-19T02:25:02Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > I _love_ how they turn AOC into the Boogeyman. Because she’s in a completely safe Democratic district. She’s our tank. They turn her into the boogeyman because she scares them…….a charismatic young Democratic politician who’s a fundraising powerhouse……and their playbook is to throw time, money and effort into derailing anyone that shows that kind of promise. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/579 "2023-10-19T02:34:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, one out of four ain’t that bad… why those three? Melanin. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/580 "2023-10-19T02:38:23Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The deep point is the FC refuses to be led, refuses to play on any team, and when all else fails, simply refuses, period. Trying to come up with alternate management mechanisms for a delegation of skilled leaders and mature followers fails utterly when there are no mature followers willing to follow. 7 hours ago?!? pfft! might as well be talking about clay tablets and hieroglyphics. You’re probably right. But in the alternative world of a non-partisan speaker as chair, it would be easier to get the speaker elected and keep the House running, even though there would still be dysfunction on the side that Gaetz et al. are sitting on. That intra-party dysfunction wouldn’t have such a serious effect on the House as a government institution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432.md?page=30)