# The Great Ongoing Revolving Speakership of the 118th Congress {Mike Johnson is new speaker as of 2023-10-25} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 12, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432 "2023-10-12T02:05:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/961 "2023-10-22T19:13:19Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > With congressional votes being named and published, it’s basically impossible for representatives (who are on a two year term) to do anything but abide by the will of the strongest force on the leash at any given moment. No. It is not. It may be impossible for them to do so and still keep their current jobs past the next election. Nobody else’s job is guaranteed in this country. Why should theirs be? (The one faint argument that could be made is that if they don’t get through the primaries someone even worse may be elected. However, if they’re going to do the bidding of the “someone worse” for fear of losing the primary, that becomes an argument with nothing to it.) Getting oneself re-elected is not supposed to be the highest, let alone the only, goal of Congressional representatives. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/962 "2023-10-22T19:13:52Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Or put themselves and their families at risk of physical harm. This, exactly, and it happened last week to those who didn’t vote for Jordan. > **[Republicans are facing death threats as the election for speaker gets mired...](https://apnews.com/article/house-speaker-jim-jordan-threats-54eeecef0188edfcb9903e45019f190f)** > > An onslaught of pressure from the Republican Party base was intended to prod the GOP’s moderate and establishment members to support Rep. Jim Jordan for House speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/963 "2023-10-22T19:16:03Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Nobody else’s job is guaranteed in this country. Why should theirs be? Nothing that I said implied or went anywhere near that, so I suspect that you’ve misread it or misunderstood something. If you say what you believe I said, I’m happy to explain where you got thrown off? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/964 "2023-10-22T19:24:49Z")
You said, as I quoted: > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > With congressional votes being named and published, it’s basically impossible for representatives (who are on a two year term) to do anything but abide by the will of the strongest force on the leash at any given moment. Which I interpreted to mean as your saying that it’s impossible for representatives to vote in disagreement with what they think are the strongest voices in the party, because otherwise they won’t get re-elected at the end of their two-year terms. Did you mean something else by that, and if so, what? And what I intended to say was that it isn’t impossible for them to vote any way they damn please. They might not get re-elected, sure; but that doesn’t make it impossible. If they consider it to be impossible, that’s because they think the most important thing isn’t their ethics, their aims, or the good of the country – it’s only that they themselves get re-elected. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/965 "2023-10-22T19:32:32Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Did you mean something else by that, and if so, what? I meant, as said: > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Since that rule was instituted, it’s broken down anyone with any personal ethics or compass and pushed them out of government. If I say that dangling candies at the edge of cliffs, near tiny children, is a bad procedure and you read that to mean that I think we should build nets and catcher drones that patrol all slopes greater than 20 degrees, then I’d say that 1) are you sure that’s the easiest and most reasonable solution? And 2) no, that’s not the one that I was thinking of. I thought we shouldn’t dangle candies over the edge of cliffs. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/966 "2023-10-22T19:37:44Z")
So you mean that because of that rule we’ve already elected only Representatives who will obey the strongest voices? That’s part of the problem – but saying that it’s impossible for them to behave properly isn’t the same thing as saying that it’s entirely possible but we’ve elected people who won’t. And I note that under the same rules of published votes we appear to have elected Democrats who are quite capable of standing up to their party. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/967 "2023-10-22T19:45:39Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And I note that under the same rules of published votes we appear to have elected Democrats who are quite capable of standing up to their party. In terms of diversity, Biden was the largest in the last primary, and that’s largely because he’s old and still has views formed in the 70s and 80s. To my ears, the debates sounded pretty footballish. We have our line on this side, the Republicans have their line on the other side, and the goal is to move the ball between those very set and unconditional lines. Manchin is the closest to being distinct, that I know of in the party, and the man’s excoriated for it and his legislation is never promoted nor discussed. I could sit down and list out hundreds of reasonable laws and policies that have nothing to do with either party. I could recruit hundreds of others who could as well. The Democratic party used to be full of pot smokers that listened to the Beatles and also the KKK and socialists. You currently have the range of Biden to AOC. I guarantee you that it’s minutely tinier it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/968 "2023-10-22T20:10:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I could sit down and list out hundreds of reasonable laws and policies that have nothing to do with either party. I could recruit hundreds of others who could as well. And at least some of the Democrats would vote for them, if they were brought to the floor, even though Republicans were voting for them as well – even if it’s Republicans who bring them to the floor. The current Republicans won’t allow them to be brought to the floor. There’s your difference. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The Democratic party used to be full of pot smokers that listened to the Beatles and also the KKK and socialists. You currently have the range of Biden to AOC. I guarantee you that it’s minutely tinier it used to be. The range of Biden to AOC and Sanders may look narrower to you than it does to me. (For that matter, smoking pot doesn’t IME line up neatly with other politics.) The Democratic party used to be full of conservatives and even of the KKK because the Democratic party used to be the right wing party. And the Republicans used to be the left wing wild eyed radicals. The two parties spent most of the 20th century gradually changing places. For a while, during the middle of the switch, both parties had a left and a right wing and both of those wings overlapped and that did in fact make it a hell of a lot easier to get things done in Congress. The switch in positions is now pretty much close to complete – except that the Democrats now have a left wing and a centrist wing and the Republicans have a right wing and a let’s-burn-it-down wing. As far left as I am, I think the country needs a right wing. But we could do without the let’s-burn-it-down wing, at least in power (we’re always going to have it, on both sides and looping around to join hands in the totalitarian blur; but we don’t always have it significantly in power.) And if the right wing is going to follow the orders of the let’s-burn-it-down wing, then we haven’t got a right wing. Which is a huge problem. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/969 "2023-10-22T21:43:46Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > What about McConnell? Does he have medical issues? I don’t want to derail this thread so I’ll just point you to another thread: > [@Mitch McConnell and Medical Issues](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mitch-mcconnell-and-medical-issues/987661): > > I don’t know if this belongs here or MPSMIS, but No real news on what the cause is, but what makes it so political is that Kentucky now has a Democratic Governor. Aren’t senators appointed by the governor when needed to complete a term? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/970 "2023-10-22T21:46:35Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > As I said upthread, House Democrats as a bloc will NEVER vote for any Republican as Speaker, no matter what Jeffries may urge them to do. They dont have to. Just enuf to overcome the FreeDumb Caucus. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/971 "2023-10-22T22:59:37Z")
If Republicans are actually that incompetent at governing, then they can vote for Jeffries, tuck their tails, and sneak back home. Jesus this shit is pathetic. (Let me hear it, Democrats have to save the guys that have launched an “impeachement inquiry” of Biden, over they don’t even know what the fuck for, and some other shit about Biden’s son’s alleged laptop. ) Fuck those guys until they can manage to get their very basic and elementary shit together. And if they can’t, then fuck those guys. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/972 "2023-10-22T23:31:29Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > There are officially nine candidates who will vie for the Republican Conference nomination for Speaker on Monday. They are eight indistinguishable white men and Byron Donalds. > > [GOP speaker chaos: 7 Republicans will battle for top post - POLITICO](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/22/gop-speaker-chaos-republicans-battle-00122918) This is an interesting quote from that article: > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, Hern leads the largest of the so-called “five families” within the GOP conference — the Republican Study Committee > > … > > If Republicans don’t think they get to 217, Hern said, “then we ought to just get the gavel to Hakeem Jefferies so we just got to work hard.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/973 "2023-10-22T23:32:52Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > the so-called “five families” within the GOP conference I read that article. Every time I read about a “family” and the negotiations that they were having with the other “families”, I had an image quite removed from the halls of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/974 "2023-10-22T23:47:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They dont have to. Just enuf to overcome the FreeDumb Caucus. I feel like I’m belaboring my point, but many, many more Republicans than just the 45 members of the Freedom Caucus will refuse to vote for a compromise “moderate” Republican who can only pass with Democratic votes or abstentions. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/975 "2023-10-22T23:56:37Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > This is an interesting quote from that article: > > > [@](#): > > > > Meanwhile, Hern leads the largest of the so-called “five families” within the GOP conference — the Republican Study Committee > > > > … > > > > If Republicans don’t think they get to 217, Hern said, “then we ought to just get the gavel to Hakeem Jefferies so we just got to work hard.” Which I read as “if the Democrats are in charge, even as a minority, us voting against everything is kosher, makes us look good, and makes them look ineffective! A big win, if only we could sell it to our radicals, dammit!” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/976 "2023-10-23T00:08:17Z")
True, it’s not just the 8 or the 22 or the 45. The GOP Establishment if anything would be seeking to **internally** “overcome” the FC in the sense of getting them to yield and bow to being bound by the procedural majority principle. No more votes against bringing forward a rule or report passed _by their own committee majorities._ ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/977 "2023-10-23T00:34:29Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > There are officially nine candidates who will vie for the Republican Conference nomination for Speaker on Monday. So does anybody know if any of those nine are relatively sensible? As in, ‘not going to insist on opposing anything solely on the grounds that Democrats like it’ and ideally as in ‘if it’s needed to keep things running and we can’t get the FC on line (such as, a budget that might pass the Senate) then we’ll go ahead and pass it with the aid of the Democrats if some of them are willing.’ Or are they all basically ‘FC except with just enough wits not to threaten anybody who I need to vote for me’? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/978 "2023-10-23T00:45:15Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > So does anybody know if any of those nine are relatively sensible? > **[Here are the eight Republican candidates running for House speaker](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/22/house-speaker-candidates-running/)** > > The Republican conference is planning to meet Monday evening to hear from this new crop of candidates seeking to become House speaker. > [@](#): > > right-wing outlets and allies of former president [Donald Trump](https://www.washingtonpost.com/donald-trump/?itid=lk_inline_manual_23) are urging Republicans not to elect Emmer, who voted to certify the results of the 2020 election for [Joe Biden](https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/candidates/joe-biden-2024/?itid=lk_inline_manual_23). > … > Hern, 61, a businessman who owned a number of McDonald’s franchises in Oklahoma, has been in Congress since 2018 and has chaired the Republican Study Committee since 2023. He **voted to overturn the results of the 2020 election**. > … > Sessions, who supported Jordan’s speakership bid, was also one of the House Republicans who **voted against the certification of the 2020 election**. > … > Scott, 53, a businessman, has served in the House since 2011. He did not object to the certification of the results of the 2020 presidential election and was part of a group of Republicans who, in a [letter](https://austinscott.house.gov/_cache/files/e/d/ed2c720e-acaa-4d6b-ac40-5647339da5bd/FC5791952AEB55F90A87D7A0821BE095.1.5.21-ken-buck-electoral-votes-letter.pdf)to congressional leaders, said lawmakers did not have the power to overturn the results of the election. > … > A staunch Trump ally, Donalds **voted against the certification of the 2020 election** and has repeatedly [falsely claimed](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/07/ron-desantis-florida-successor-freedom-caucus-byron-donalds) that Biden is not the legitimate president. > … > Bergman, 76, who chairs the House Armed Services subcommittee on intelligence and special operations, has served in Congress since 2017 and is a member of the conservative Republican Study Committee. He **objected to the certification of the results of the 2020 election**. > … > Johnson is a close Trump ally, having served in the former president’s legal defense team during his two impeachment trials in the Senate. Johnson has also **contested the results of the 2020 presidential election**. > … > Meuser, 59, was one of over 120 House Republicans who in December 2020 signed an amicus brief in support of a lawsuit that **would have invalidated the results of the 2020 election** in four states, including his home state. > … > Palmer, 69, voted against certifying the results of the 2020 election and was also one of over 120 House Republicans who in December 2020 signed an amicus brief in support of a lawsuit that **would have invalidated the results of the 2020 election** in four states. (emphasis added) Of the nine, seven of them don’t pass the basic test of not trying to overturn the presidential election. Scott and Emmer are the only two who pass that very first hurdle. I don’t know much about them otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/979 "2023-10-23T00:56:27Z")
So basically, “sensible” Republicans don’t want to be the Speaker. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432/980 "2023-10-23T01:01:41Z")
Two-thirds of House Republicans voted to decertify Biden’s presidential electors from Arizona and Pennsylvania. If anything, those seven are simply representing the views and wishes of their party conference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-revolving-speakership-of-the-118th-congress-mike-johnson-is-new-speaker-as-of-2023-10-25/991432.md?page=50)