# The Great Ongoing Space Exploration Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** science-math\ **Created:** [November 16, 2020, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703 "2020-11-16T12:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/762 "2023-04-28T01:10:28Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Agree it sounded like tripe. And like the sort of sensationalism that might have have mistakenly fired up @carnivorousplant. Thanks, LSL. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/763 "2023-04-29T00:56:28Z")
> **[Key radar antenna stuck on Europe's Jupiter-bound spacecraft](https://apnews.com/article/jupiter-spacecraft-stuck-antenna-launch-85765c95912218d03a96c569f39699b5)** > > A critical antenna is jammed on a Jupiter-bound spacecraft launched two weeks ago. The European Space Agency said Friday that the 52-foot radar antenna on its Juice spacecraft unfolded only one-third of the way following liftoff. Engineers suspect a... The comment which puzzled me was: > Engineers suspect a tiny pin may be protruding. Flight controllers in Germany plan to fire the spacecraft’s engine in hopes of shaking the pin loose. If that doesn’t work, they said they have plenty of time to solve the problem. Other than sending up Robby, the Robot, how does one fix something like this? [Firing the engine sounds doubtful to me.] ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/764 "2023-04-29T01:44:18Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Other than sending up Robby, the Robot, how does one fix something like this? [Firing the engine sounds doubtful to me.] Firing the engine will likely produce vibrations in the spacecraft. That could shake it loose. This reminds me of the Gallileo antenna problem. That probe had three struts jam, preventing the deployment of the high gain antenna. They never did get that one fixed. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/765 "2023-04-29T02:07:00Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Other than sending up Robby, the Robot, how does one fix something like this? [Firing the engine sounds doubtful to me.] You don’t exactly “fix” it. You try whatever you possibly can that you can concoct a semi-plausible story about how it might help. Either the problem is minor in cause( if not in effect) and it succumbs to your weak efforts to jiggle it loose, or the problem is more major, unfixable, and your umpteen billion dollar mission is largely high speed garbage. So with that ROI on getting lucky, you keep trying any/everything your team of smart engineers can think of. Engine vibration, thermal cycling, reserve the magnetic polarity, anything. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/766 "2023-04-29T22:09:40Z")
A video of a test deployment of the antenna in question: > **[SpaceTech antenna for JUICE RIME installed and ready to fly](https://spacetech-i.com/news/news-details/spacetech-antenna-for-juice-rime-installed-and-ready-to-fly)** > > The RIME Antenna, designed and manufactured by SpaceTech, is a 16 m long deployable ultra-light CFRP antenna, weighting only 1.5 kg. It is able to withstand temperatures up to 191 °C which occurs during the fly-by at Venus down to the icy-moon... Kinda funny that they use helium balloons to simulate zero G. And the antenna _is_ pretty dang wobbly looking, suggesting that some jiggling might actually do the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/767 "2023-04-30T03:14:27Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > What causes this crackling audio effect? Recent Scott Manley vid is about just that: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdCizNwLaHA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdCizNwLaHA) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2023, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/768 "2023-05-01T06:59:26Z")
WTF. > Lori Garver confirms it: > ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/769 "2023-05-09T12:35:47Z")
Virgin Galactic will be doing a final test flight later this month before starting commercial tourist operations in late June: > **[Virgin Galactic Announces Crew for Return to Space](https://www.virgingalactic.com/news/virgin-galactic-announces-crew-for-return-to-space/)** ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/770 "2023-05-10T16:59:06Z")
> **[Vast says it will launch its first space station in 2025 on a Falcon 9](https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/05/vast-says-it-will-launch-its-first-space-station-in-2025-on-a-falcon-9/)** > > "We have a clear path for how we're going to get there." Surprising considering the enormous costs of the International Space System (and the very long time it took to build) that a small firm lots of us have never heard of plans to build a space station. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/771 "2023-05-10T17:19:33Z")
Wow. The founder is only worth ~$2.4 Billion ! (For contrast, Richard Branson is worth ~$3 Billion). He has vowed to invest more than $300 million. That’s microscopic ! I’m skeptical ! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/772 "2023-05-10T22:55:47Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Surprising considering the enormous costs of the International Space System (and the very long time it took to build) that a small firm lots of us have never heard of plans to build a space station. The incredible cost of the ISS is completely due to the $35,000/kg launch cost of the space shuttle, plus the typical cost-plus contracting of the typical aerospace companies that built it. If a station can go up on a Falcon 9, the launch cost is somewhere between $30 million and $60 million, as opposed to the billions per launch of the Space Shuttle or SLS. There are many players in the private space station game. Blue Origin has their Orbital Reef project. Axios is planning a space station in the near future. Bigelow Aerospace actually has one of their inflatable habs on the ISS right now, and had plans for a much bigger station. In the future, I think we could see a custom-built Starship fitted out as a space station, then it would simply launch itself into orbit. You could build something as effective as the ISS for maybe $500 million, instead of the over $100 billion it cost to build ISS. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/773 "2023-05-11T01:46:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You could build something as effective as the ISS for maybe $500 million, instead of the over $100 billion it cost to build ISS. In some fairness though, none of it would be possible if someone hadn’t built the ISS first. Did we (primarily the US) pay too much? Sure - for exactly the reasons you stated (esp. cost+ contracts). Would SpaceX and the other private launch companies exist if we didn’t? Probably not. Even SpaceX, for all its innovations, relies heavily (even existentially) on US government contracts. I am all in for private space flight and I do believe that’s the future. But there’s a reason why the major players still bid for (and protest over) government contracts. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/774 "2023-05-11T02:01:12Z")
You mean because SpaceX wax saved by getting the COTS contract to supply the ISS? I suppose that’s true, although there’s no teling what the space industry would look like if NASA hadn’t shackled itself to the enormously expensive ISS and Shuttle. Maybe we would have had reusable rockets 20 years ago. The DC-X was on its way to doing that before being cancelled. No SpaceX tech I know of came out of ISS, so I assume you mean NASA funding. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/775 "2023-05-11T02:36:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You mean because SpaceX wax saved by getting the COTS contract to supply the ISS? I suppose that’s true, although there’s no teling what the space industry would look like if NASA hadn’t shackled itself to the enormously expensive ISS and Shuttle. Again, without those contracts from NASA, where is the ROI on private spaceflight? Tourism? We’ve had, what 2 or 3 tourist flights? You think that would’ve funded Falcon 9’s now mature launch and recovery model? > [@](#): > > Maybe we would have had reusable rockets 20 years ago. The DC-X was on its way to doing that before being cancelled. But we didn’t. Space wasn’t really economically viable without government launches. I get that violates Ayn Rand’s commandments from the Fountainhead, but the simple fact is that most really large engineering efforts require the dedication and resources of a nation-state, not just some plucky [dot.com](http://dot.com) billionaire. > [@](#): > > No SpaceX tech I know of came out of ISS, so I assume you mean NASA funding. I’m not sure what this even means. Crew Dragon was primarily designed as a taxi-cab to ISS (case in point, they only built enough to fulfill their contract and have no interest in building any for private purposes). NASA paid for it, but the tech came not out of, but because of ISS. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/776 "2023-05-11T02:59:18Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > You think that would’ve funded Falcon 9’s now mature launch and recovery model? You seem to be confusing Falcon 9 with (Crew) Dragon. While Falcon 9 indeed got a load of support from NASA in the beginning, and continued contracts have certainly helped with development, it’s a massive commercial success and would easily support itself today without government contracts. > [@Zakalwe](#): > > but the simple fact is that most really large engineering efforts require the dedication and resources of a nation-state The Falcon 1 flew without any NASA dollars. And wasn’t funded by a billionaire. > [@Zakalwe](#): > > (case in point, they only built enough to fulfill their contract and have no interest in building any for private purposes). Not true. > **[After Inspiration4, SpaceX sees high demand for free-flyer missions](https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/after-inspiration4-spacex-sees-high-demand-for-free-flyer-missions/)** > > "We have interest for both Dragons and Starships, which is pretty exciting." > SpaceX could build more Crew Dragons for purely space tourism missions, Reed said. “If the demand is there, then we’ll want to look at what we can do to continue to grow that,” he said. “And then, on the horizon of course, is Starship. Starship will be able to carry a lot more people at once. So, you know, there’s really both options, and we have interest for both Dragons and Starships, which is pretty exciting.” That’s not a statement that they _will_ build more capsules, but of course that’s dependent on how reusable the capsules are and when Starship comes online. Crew Dragon may be obsolete before there’s a need for more vehicles. But they haven’t ruled it out, either. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/777 "2023-05-13T15:15:11Z")
I stand corrected about Musk not being a billionaire when he founded SpaceX (and had completely forgotten about Falcon 1 honestly - it only two successful flights and only one paying payload). As for the other, I do think that they only built enough for NASA. They, could, of course build more, but it appears that they’re mostly focused on Starship. Although this did come up (announced a couple of days ago, the day after my post. And there’s no mention of the Crew Dragon being a new build - I think they’re just going to use one of the ones they’ve already got. We’ll see if Vast actually gets off the ground. > **[Space startup partners with SpaceX to launch commercial space station](https://news.yahoo.com/space-startup-partners-spacex-launch-123601851.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKkbXA_mjyoljoMtboOPjc5Wv3FZy7wijCPKSoR2mp002px_QyM_Nq7KOkO8tmkTcEKnLt7-1gJSb5sCOwsNZQN1FXiC3xXvZO_afqqTDRaIvpONqDjMQE5Wt5-zAlE9NKuuplM5aU1W0VPlSv6ReoQQ3Z1eKTwvS9u4mRtGiiyQ)** > > Vast, a startup backed by cryptocurrency billionaire Jed McCaleb, is aiming to launch a school bus-sized space station to orbit by late 2025 with some help from partner SpaceX, Elon Musk's rocket firm. The cylindrical spacecraft dubbed Haven-1 is... ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/778 "2023-05-13T15:36:59Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Again, without those contracts from NASA, where is the ROI on private spaceflight? Tourism? We’ve had, what 2 or 3 tourist flights? You think that would’ve funded Falcon 9’s now mature launch and recovery model? You could find that out by looking at the launch manifest. NASA accounts for a small percentage of Falcon 9 flights. By far the largest number of flights recently have been Starlink launches. That’s totally private, and potentially highly profitable. The Starlink system alone could keep SpaceX’s rockets flying indefinitely. > **[List of Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_Heavy_launches)** > > Since June 2010, rockets from the Falcon 9 family have been launched 287 times, with 12 full mission successes, one partial failure and one total loss of the spacecraft. In addition, one rocket and its payload were destroyed on the launch pad during the fueling process before a static fire test was set to occur. > Designed and operated by private manufacturer SpaceX, the Falcon 9 rocket family includes the retired versions Falcon 9 v1.0, v1.1, and v1.2 "Full Thrust" Block 1 to 4, along with th... Commercial space is huge. ab out $450 billion annually. That’s more than double what it was in 2010. There are multiple LEO satellite constellations looking for rides to Orbit. There are private imaging satellites, all the telecom stuff, etc. > [@Zakalwe](#): > > But we didn’t. Space wasn’t really economically viable without government launches. I get that violates Ayn Rand’s commandments from the Fountainhead, but the simple fact is that most really large engineering efforts require the dedication and resources of a nation-state, not just some plucky [dot.com](http://dot.com) billionaire. That may be backwards. You could say that the cold war space program turned space access into a government activity, and that’s _why_ it was so expensive. We all just accepted that space flight was really expensive and only governments could do it. But in reality, it might be that space flight was really expensive _because_ only governments did it. As soon as private space came along, the costs started to plummet. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/779 "2023-05-13T17:11:23Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Axios is planning a space station in the near future. Axiom, not Axios. You had me confused for a second - “are they gonna broadcast the news from orbit?” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/780 "2023-05-13T17:13:44Z")
Yeah, Axiom. Slip of the fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/781 "2023-05-13T22:16:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > No, it’s not clipping in the recording, it’s clipping of the air itself. At some point, the pressure waves just become too strong to be modulated, so the wave just clips. It’s a physical phenomenon, not an artifact of the recording. Your ears hear the crackling as well. _The air itself clips._ 😮😮😮 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=40)