# The Great Ongoing Space Exploration Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** science-math\ **Created:** [November 16, 2020, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703 "2020-11-16T12:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/842 "2023-06-29T17:05:26Z")
> **[Branson’s Virgin Galactic to fly its first customers to space today](https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/06/virgin-galactic-begins-commercial-service/)** > > After years of setbacks, Virgin Galactic's commercial debut is finally here. Virgin Galactic says it charges about $450,000 per seat for commercial space tourist missions and has about 800 would-be passengers waiting to fly. A bit too expensive for me. It was a success: > **[Virgin Galactic aces its 1st-ever commercial launch of suborbital space plane...](https://www.space.com/virgin-galactic-first-commercial-mission-success)** > > The 'Galactic 01' mission was a success. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/843 "2023-07-04T21:02:06Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Sort of related to the thread topic is this article “A Rocket a Day Keeps the Costs Away”. NSF just released a walkaround of the Astra factory: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pSaa5ZNMGYA/maxresdefault.jpg "Astra's Revolutionary Manufacturing Process | Rocket 4 Factory Tour") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSaa5ZNMGYA) They mention several times that they’ve sized their production lines to “a rocket a day.” They have a pretty neat system for turning reels of sheet metal into a rocket stage. Not so different from what SpaceX is doing with Starship, but this is at a small enough scale that they can hit almost complete automation. At least in principle. They certainly have lots of expensive equipment and a large factory. But they’re pretty far from even their first Rocket 4 test flight, let alone pumping out rockets at a high rate. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2023, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/844 "2023-07-04T22:52:39Z")
A “rocket a day” keppes per rocket costs away. But still costs 365 \* the price of one rocket every year. Better hope there are enough customers to want 365 of what you’re selling. “Build it; they will come” is lunacy. So is “they will have to buy my product; it’s that cool”. Instead suppliers and customers grow up in tandem aware of each other’s tastes, strengths, weaknesses, demands, and capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/845 "2023-07-04T23:13:20Z")
I make no claims as to whether they have an economic model here. Rocket 4 has a max payload of 550 kg, and if they really could fly it every day, would imply 200 tons to orbit per year. SpaceX put \>600 tons into orbit in 2022, and will likely beat that figure this year, so there’s enough overall demand in that sense. But to match SpaceX’s current costs, Astra needs to charge ~$2M per launch. Maybe that’s possible, but it seems like a big stretch. So the question then is if prospective customers are willing to pay more for their own ride, on their own orbit, on their own schedule (in the video, they contrast this as “Uber vs. a bus”). It’s surely worth a _little_ more, and maybe a lot more in some cases. But for 365 flights per year? That seems less likely. Most of those will be for megaconstellations and those will optimize $/kg. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/846 "2023-07-12T03:58:28Z")
First methane-oxygen rocket to reach orbit: > > > China 'N Asia Spaceflight 🚀🛰️🙏 @CNSpaceflight SpaceX will have to be content with first reusable methalox rocket to orbit. Vulcan, New Glenn, Neutron, Terran R, and maybe some others are also still in the running for #2 to orbit. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/847 "2023-07-12T13:04:22Z")
> **[Jeff Bezos’ Blue Origin rocket engine explodes during testing](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/11/jeff-bezos-blue-origin-be-4-rocket-engine-explodes-during-testing.html)** > > It's a destructive setback with potential ramifications for the company's customer United Launch Alliance and Blue Origin's own rocket New Glenn. A bit odd that this happened June 30, but was not reported until July 11. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/848 "2023-07-12T16:56:25Z")
An impressive degree of OpSec if this is really the first public awareness of the failure. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/849 "2023-07-13T05:48:57Z")
Tory Bruno says it’s no big deal. That’s probably true, as far as it goes. The engine failed during acceptance testing, and the whole point of that is to catch problems like this. The first two engines passed acceptance testing with no problem. Vulcan isn’t currently limited by the BE-4 engines. The issue is that this is only the _third_ flight-ready engine. Total. They’re only making one every several months. SpaceX has blown up plenty of their Raptor engines, but they’re making one _per day_. So, I would say it’s a big deal because one out of a total of three engines blew up. It made a bad production rate even worse. And it may be that whatever is needed to fix this (additional QA, some extra processing step, etc.) will make the production rate even slower. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/850 "2023-07-13T19:37:06Z")
Heh. From [this article](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/13/investing-in-space-why-blue-origins-engine-explosion-matters.html): > As one propulsion engineer wrote on social media: “You learn a lot in development testing. You learn a little bit in qualification testing. Blessed be they who continue to learn in acceptance testing.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/851 "2023-07-13T20:36:48Z")
From a suitable distance. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/852 "2023-07-13T21:56:42Z")
How does Blue Origin survive? They started about the same time as SpaceX, but have had almost no revenue and only raised $571 million in external funding. New Glenn is not ready, they are having trouble building BE-4 engines in quantity, New Shepard blew up… I know Bezos said he’s committed $1 billion per year to keep it alive, but that company is seriously under-performing and has suffered some serious brain drain of top talent. It makes me wonder if it will even be around in the medium term. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/853 "2023-07-13T22:03:10Z")
Well, they _have_ managed to put themselves into a position where they’re a national security asset. If Bezos stops dumping money into them, ULA’s gotta do something. And that means the US has to do something, which might include sprinkling some money their way so that BO can be bought. Or maybe just sprinkling money directly on BO. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/854 "2023-07-21T19:48:27Z")
The story behind those great Apollo 11 liftoff pics: > **[Apollo 11: How Ralph Morse Got Those Famous, Crazy Photos of Liftoff](https://www.life.com/history/apollo-11-photos-of-what-liftoff-looked-like/)** > > It's one of the most immediately recognizable photographic sequences ever made: five dizzying shots capturing the liftoff of Apollo 11. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/855 "2023-07-21T20:02:26Z")
I thought those were taken by NASA. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/856 "2023-07-29T03:26:55Z")
Falcon Heavy launch tonight: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5ixbPMe6684/maxresdefault.jpg "Hughes JUPITER 3 Mission") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ixbPMe6684) Nice landing of the side boosters back at the launch site, though the center core was expended. Good to see FH finally getting some decent use (even though they’re usually at least partly expendable). It’s _six_ independent spacecraft, of which five are (in principle) reusable. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/857 "2023-08-10T20:33:24Z")
> **[Virgin Galactic successfully flies tourists to space for first time](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/aug/10/vigin-galactic-space-flight-vss-unity-landing)** > > Six individuals were aboard VSS Unity space plane, including first mother-daughter duo to venture to space together > [According to](https://www.reuters.com/science/virgin-galactic-rocket-plane-carried-aloft-commercial-launch-space-2023-06-29/) Virgin Galactic, the company has already booked a backlog of about 800 customers. Tickets have ranged from $250,000 to $450,000. > > Galactic 03, the company’s third commercial spaceflight, is planned for September. I find it hard to comprehend paying $250,000 for a one hour experience. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/858 "2023-08-10T20:44:17Z")
There are a lot of people for whom $250k isn’t all that much money. Not pocket change, but affordable for a once-in-a-lifetime experience. From my perspective, the problem is that it’s not _really_ space. You get a few minutes at zero gees. Sure, rocket planes are pretty cool and it’s probably a fun ride, but the actual space part is pretty minimal. Plus I have serious safety concerns with their design. I’m not surprised they have 800 people lined up. But even at $250-450k a pop, it doesn’t seem like much of a business model. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/859 "2023-08-11T11:50:26Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > From my perspective, the problem is that it’s not _really_ space. Absolutely. It’s just a gimmick that has nothing to do with any real space program. As far as I can see there isn’t any useful spinoff or synergy from it either? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/860 "2023-08-11T12:23:44Z")
There’s one born every minute. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/861 "2023-08-11T12:44:22Z")
Are they really in freefall from being in a sort of orbit or does the plane simulate it by taking a parabolic trajectory? I guess the distinction is technical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=44)