# The Great Ongoing Space Exploration Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** science-math\ **Created:** [November 16, 2020, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703 "2020-11-16T12:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1022 "2023-11-24T20:39:16Z")
At least NASA’s rockets are all made in the same hemisphere… ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1023 "2023-11-24T21:10:27Z")
Only because American Samoa doesn’t rate a congresscritter. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1024 "2023-11-24T21:16:18Z")
Any reason why the recent SpaceX rocket failure (touted by some as a “success”) is no longer even worthy of an eyeroll on this board? None of the recent space threads has had a single post on it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1025 "2023-11-24T21:47:10Z")
There are approximately 100 posts on exactly this topic starting right here in this 18-month old and still quite lively dedicated Starship thread: > [@Will Musk's starship reach orbit this year?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-musks-starship-reach-orbit-this-year/967583/561): > > Hour and a half until launch. Things are going smoothly so far. Prop load just started. NSF stream: [[SpaceX Launches Second Starship Flight Test] ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOI35G7cP7o) Everyday Astronaut: [[[4K] Watch SpaceX launch Starship, the biggest rocket ever, LIVE up close and personal!] ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6na40SqzYnU) SpaceX stream should start here in about an hour: ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1026 "2023-11-24T22:51:04Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Any reason why the recent SpaceX rocket failure (touted by some as a “success”) is no longer even worthy of an eyeroll on this board? None of the recent space threads has had a single post on it. It was a flight test to gather data and prove out techniques like hot staging and electric actuators, and they never expected to recover anything. It was said before the flight that a ‘success’ would be if the hot staging worked and Starship managed to fly away from the booster. Hot staging worked. The booster turned around and started boostback before it blew up. Starship continued on into space and flew for 8 minutes, nearly reaching its target speed, and reaching its target altitude. The flight WAS a success. Not 100%, but still a successful test. Failure would have been declared if the rocket blew up on the pad, or if it showed tye same pattern of engine failures as the first flight, or if hot staging had blown up the rocket, or if the launch seriously damaged the pad again. The other test case to be closed had to do with pad integrity. The new deluge system worked great, and the pad needed almost no work to prepare for the next launch. That was a big deal. The next launch will probably have as a success criterion the booster flying back to the ocean to a controlled crash, and Starship hitting its target orbit. I doubt they expect it to survive reentry the first time around so even if it burns up, so long as the other issues are closed it will be a successful test. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1027 "2023-11-25T00:14:20Z")
The irony is that the articles would be the same even if they had hit every one of their stretch objectives. _Starship hits ocean and explodes after failing to make orbit; Super Heavy booster also lost_. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1028 "2023-11-25T01:13:27Z")
I find it sad that people are living through a revolution in spaceflight and watching one of the most magnificent machines ever made make history, and they can’t enjoy it because of their _politics_. What a small, sad world to live in. “Grandpa, what was it like to see the world’s biggest rocket fly?” “I don’t know. I didn’t watch because Elon Musk said something I didn’t like.” ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1029 "2023-11-25T01:47:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I find it sad that people are living through a revolution in spaceflight and watching one of the most magnificent machines ever made make history, and they can’t enjoy it because of their _politics_. > > What a small, sad world to live in. That is a shitty thing to say. Being disappointed isn’t about politics, you’re projecting like a Panorama. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1030 "2023-11-25T03:17:17Z")
> **[NASA will launch a Mars mission on Blue Origin’s first New Glenn rocket](https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/nasa-will-launch-a-mars-mission-on-blue-origins-first-new-glenn-rocket/#p3)** > > This Mars mission is relatively modest in cost, so NASA thinks it's worth the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1031 "2023-11-25T04:51:11Z")
Yeah, you know, it was. I was in a bad mood about something and showed poor judgement. My apologies. I shouldn’t be questioning other people’s values. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1032 "2023-11-25T05:00:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, you know, it was. I was in a bad mood about something and showed poor judgement. My apologies. I shouldn’t be questioning other people’s values Thanks for that. The comment was basically calling someone (everyone?) a hypocrite, which is unfair as heck. People can have different feelings about Starship that are earned and not political. Thanks for understanding that. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1033 "2023-11-25T05:21:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I find it sad that people are living through a revolution in spaceflight and watching one of the most magnificent machines ever made make history, and they can’t enjoy it because of their _politics_. As someone who grew up practically worshipping space and science and science fiction, I have to say that the “politics” is _far_ more important than some stupid rocket. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1034 "2023-11-25T08:58:36Z")
Without stating anything about what individuals should take away from any given flight (that is their prerogative), I will say that people should keep in mind that a significant amount of space reporting is by people totally unqualified for it. The [Gell-Mann Amnesia effect](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_Amnesia_effect) is very much in play here. That said, there are good space reporters. Eric Berger of Ars Technica, Michael Sheetz of CNBC, and Jeff Foust of Space News are three good ones, who are knowledgeable about the industry and can put things in the proper context. There are probably a couple of others I’m not thinking of, but these are a good start. I’m not aware of the NY Times or the Washington Post ever having good launch industry reporting, though it may vary based on who gets to cover the story. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1035 "2023-11-29T17:55:15Z")
Wow. > **['Perfect solar system' found in search for alien life](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67488931)** > > Astronomers hope to learn how its six planets formed and whether any of them are home to life > Not only are the planets similarly sized; in a far cry from the unrelated timing of the orbits of the planets in our own solar system, these rotate in synch. > > In the time it takes for the innermost planet to go around the star three times, the next planet along gets around twice, and so on out to the fourth planet in the system. From there things change to a 4:3 pattern of relative orbit speeds for the last two planets. > > This intricate planetary choreography is so precise that that the researchers have created a cyclical musical piece, akin to a Philip Glass-style composition, with notes and rhythms corresponding to each planet and their orbital periods. The astronomers also claim the system was formed without any violent collisions and that the planets have been orbiting undisturbed for most of the star’s entire 12 billion year existence. It’s not made clear in the article how they think they know this, but it surely makes it a remarkable place to study for potential life, depending on the composition of the planets. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1036 "2023-11-29T19:08:46Z")
That’s a pretty bad popsci glurge. _Washington Post_ has a more accurate and somewhat more detailed article: > **[Astronomers discover six planets orbiting a nearby sun-like star](https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2023/11/29/six-new-planets-found-nasa/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzAxMjM0MDAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzAyNjE2Mzk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MDEyMzQwMDAsImp0aSI6ImFiZThmZmVjLTkwYmItNGJiYy1iNDZlLTljYmI0NjRkZTU1YiIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9zY2llbmNlLzIwMjMvMTEvMjkvc2l4LW5ldy1wbGFuZXRzLWZvdW5kLW5hc2EvIn0.eOo9evLkHBCPHFtyj3hVla5UnUfAYwI1dDcSZDA2WgQ&itid=gfta)** > > The new planets could provide a breakthrough in understanding how planets form and why there are so many “sub Neptune” worlds in our galaxy. Those planets orbit very close to their star, so it is unlikely that they would support life as we know it, and are essentially forced into resonances. the system interesting because it is novel in the context of existing observations but I doubt it is as unique as it first appears. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1037 "2023-11-29T19:14:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > That’s a pretty bad popsci glurge. _Washington Post_ has a more accurate and somewhat more detailed article Yeah, I was wondering. Thank you for the gift link. Even the assertion that this resonance is unique is unclear. I’m confused why this is even that news worthy. [This Astronomy article](https://www.astronomy.com/science/astronomers-find-six-planets-orbiting-in-resonance/) contains the quote: > [@](#): > > Ultimately, about 1 percent of all planetary systems are still orbiting in resonance. We know of some 40 or 50, the team said. And this isn’t the first six-planet resonant system discovered. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1038 "2023-11-29T19:37:19Z")
Thank you @Stranger_On_A_Train and @squeegee I have never heard of orbital resonance of an entire planetary system before but I did think there must be something like that going on. How beautiful nature is! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1039 "2023-11-29T19:39:15Z")
From the _Washington Post_ article and I’ve bolded a couple of salient points about looking for habitable “Earth-like” rocky worlds: > _The new planets are called “sub Neptune” because they’re bigger than the close-in, rocky worlds of our solar system, such as Earth and Venus, but not as big as the ice giants Neptune and Uranus. They range from two to three times the diameter of Earth. The innermost planet orbits the star in just nine days, while the outermost makes that journey in 54. There could be other planets in the system that remain undetected._ > > _For some reason, the universe is lousy with sub-Neptune planets, which is one reason the new system is so exciting for astronomers._ > > _“With six major planets, its architecture is intriguing,” Knicole Colon, a NASA astrophysicist and exoplanet expert, said in an email. **“These planets are likely not going to support life, as they are all likely too warm and too large.** But still the whole sub-Neptune angle is the intriguing part, [because] we don’t yet know why our solar system does not have one.”_ > > _It’s an open question whether the universe simply favors planets in this size, or if our detection methods are skewing the results. **Small, rocky worlds like ours, orbiting at a comfortable distance from an old, calm star like our sun, are hard to find.** They are less likely to transit the face of the star as seen from Earth, and they have minimal gravitational effects on the star’s motion._ We should not, of course, discount the possibility of life or “life-like” self-organizing systems which can develop in non-terrestrial conditions, but they would be significantly more difficult to recognize if they do not utilize a fundamental basis that is something like our basic hydrocarbon biochemistry. Orbital resonances for close orbiting planets are probably more then norm than the exception for stable planetary systems. It is certainly the case for the Galilean moons of Jupiter, and resonance interactions are responsible for the creation and differentiation of Saturn’s ring system. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1040 "2023-11-29T20:59:31Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > They are less likely to transit the face of the star as seen from Earth Huh? Why? I would assume they are as likely to transit in front of us as any other planet would. The real reason we aren’t finding Earthlike planets around Sunlike stars is that the orbital period is long like ours, and Kepler failed before it could gather the three years of data required to confirm those transits. They are also small and stars like the Sun are dim, making detecting transits harder. But les likely to transit in front of the star as seen from Earth? That doesn’t seem right. What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1041 "2023-11-29T22:07:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Huh? Why? I would assume they are as likely to transit in front of us as any other planet would. Because they are smaller, so the chance that they will significantly occlude a significant chord across the face of the star is lower (especially at longer distances where the star may only be a few dozen pixels), as is the amount of light that is blocked. Detection of extrasolar planets by transit is a statistical effort to match occlusions with possible orbits and there are a lot of apparent detections that just end up being normal variability, signal noise, dust clouds, or any of another natural phenomena that aren’t planets. The bigger the planet, the brighter the star, and the closer the plane is in line with the viewing angle from Earth, the greater likelihood it can be confirmed as an exoplanet. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=53)