# The Great Ongoing Space Exploration Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** science-math\ **Created:** [November 16, 2020, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703 "2020-11-16T12:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1202 "2024-02-22T03:29:22Z")
Fingers crossed, but the Intuitive Machines Odysseus lunar mission is continuing to look pretty good: > Lunar landers haven’t had great luck lately, but so far this one has been pretty smooth sailing. It’s also one of the more advanced landers, having a cryogenic methane-oxygen engine. Which is tricky since it had to be fueled on the launch pad. Interestingly, the lander evolved out of the previous Project Morpheus vertical takeoff and landing system, which itself arose from the work that Armadillo Aerospace did. Armadillo was founded by John Carmack (of Doom/Quake fame), so it’s nice to see that finally bear fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1203 "2024-02-22T18:05:02Z")
It ain’t easy: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/world/moon-landing-attempts-challenges-scn/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/world/moon-landing-attempts-challenges-scn/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1204 "2024-02-22T20:58:26Z")
NASA TV coverage of the lunar landing here (starting in an hour): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Dg2ffigGcYM/maxresdefault.jpg "Intuitive Machines-1 Lunar Landing (Official NASA Broadcast)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg2ffigGcYM) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1205 "2024-02-22T21:42:56Z")
I hope it sheds some light on the mysteries of lunar water. There have been huge developments in the discovery of water on the moon. At first it was thought that any water on the moon would be locked in the permanently shadowed craters at rhe poles. But now it appears that water is all through the regolith at higher latitudes, and not as much in the craters as we thought. Hopefully this lander will help figure out the story, but water on the moon just ight be plentiful, easily harvested, and renewable. Huge implications for colonization. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1206 "2024-02-22T21:48:09Z")
I’ll be satisfied it it lands upright and in one piece 🙂 . But yeah, there’s an enormous amount to learn about lunar water. My current feeling is that the sweet spot for lunar ISRU is oxygen: carry the fuel from Earth, but make the oxygen there. But if there’s water all throughout the regolith, then you can make your hydrogen there, too. You’ll still have to bring some carbon if you want methane. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1207 "2024-02-22T22:04:34Z")
Heh, their visualization tool uses Unreal Engine 5. John Carmack’s nemesis! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1208 "2024-02-22T22:05:41Z")
Thr Sophia telescope found that the regolith in Clavius crater has about 12 ounces of water per cubic meter (roughly 100-400 ppm). This is regolith in direct sunlight. Apparently, the water is possibly created from the interaction of the solar wind and oxygen in the regolith, and collects inside volcanic hydroscopic glass beads that are part of the regolith. A study of those beads showed that they lose their water in about 15 years, meaning that they are being constantly replenished. So we may have a 15 year water cycle on the moon that can provide endless amounts of water. Of particular interest will be if the lander finds water at the regolith at the poles. It should be minimal, since the solar wind is much weaker per square meter at rhe poles. It may be that at the poles most water is in the shadowed craters. But from maybe 60-80 degrees latitude the regolith may contain the water. > **[NASA’s SOFIA Discovers Water on Sunlit Surface of Moon - NASA](https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasas-sofia-discovers-water-on-sunlit-surface-of-moon/)** > > NASA’s Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy (SOFIA) has confirmed, for the first time, water on the sunlit surface of the Moon. This discovery > **[Scientists Find Water in Glass Beads From the Moon](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-find-water-in-glass-beads-from-the-moon-180981906/)** > > This means the lunar surface could hold up to 300 billion tons of water, a new study estimates ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1209 "2024-02-22T23:15:46Z")
10 minutes to touchdown. Main descent burn has started and seems to be going ok. Too bad the livestream kinda sucks–no live telemetry available. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1210 "2024-02-22T23:30:00Z")
Well, it’s on the ground. There’s a comms outage… unclear whether the lander made a crater or if it’s just a comms glitch. It seems that an outage was expected, but it’s been a few minutes now. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1211 "2024-02-22T23:35:25Z")
I thought there was supposed to be a camera following behind the lander to give us some cool live TeeVee. Do I have that right? Is there no images from camera because of comm issues? Or was there never going to be a camera view of the lander at all? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1212 "2024-02-22T23:38:45Z")
There was a little cubesat that was supposed to shoot off to the side and take pictures of the descent at the last moments. But it wasn’t going to be live–there would be some selection process and only a handful of pics would be transmitted back. Unfortunately, at this size/power/cost scale there isn’t enough margin for live video. Still, there’s hope for a few cool pics. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1213 "2024-02-22T23:41:01Z")
They are getting faint signals from the lander–it’s not totally dead. This reads to me that it tipped over (maybe a hard landing, maybe some lateral velocity, etc.). So, antennas not pointed in the right direction, maybe even bent/snapped, but not such a hard landing to destroy it. That’s total speculation on my part of course, but we’ll find out more in the coming hours. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1214 "2024-02-22T23:46:21Z")
Huh, that’s the end of the livestream. I guess that means X for further updates. The lifestream was super hit or miss. Bad was a total lack of telemetry and the low-information host. Good was the overall description of the mission and that they piped through the main voice channels. The host was making some mundane comment while someone in the control room pipes up “We’re not dead yet!” ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1215 "2024-02-23T00:00:36Z")
The NYTimes had this: > During the coverage of the landing, a company spokesman said a laser instrument on the spacecraft that was to provide data on its altitude and velocity was not working. Maybe that explains the lack of telemetry data during the webcast? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1216 "2024-02-23T00:08:02Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > This reads to me that it tipped over (maybe a hard landing, maybe some lateral velocity, etc.). See, the Japanese can build a lander that can keep working even upside down. Japanese engineering is the reason that imports from Japan are kicking Detroit’s ass. \ ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1217 "2024-02-23T00:17:07Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Maybe that explains the lack of telemetry data during the webcast? Maybe, but they should have had other information. I’d hope. They actually had another rangefinder via a NASA instrument, but I guess it’s possible they weren’t able to pipe through the real-time data. > [@gnoitall](#): > > See, the Japanese can build a lander that can keep working even upside down. Well, this one is also alive, so it seems they’re somewhat comparable. We’ll see what science they can still get out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1218 "2024-02-23T02:25:42Z")
It seems to be upright! > They’ve been pretty transparent overall, though somewhat slow in communication. I’m sure we’ll find out all the deets eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1219 "2024-02-23T02:51:28Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Or was there never going to be a camera view of the lander at all? Here’s a pic of how that camera thing works: [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/kca4Lot.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/kca4Lot) They’re still working on getting some pictures downloaded. Fingers crossed for EagleCam! ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1220 "2024-02-23T04:22:05Z")
> **[Jeff Bezos’ New Glenn rocket finally makes an appearance on the launch pad](https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/big-year-ahead-says-jeff-bezos-as-new-glenn-rocket-rolls-to-launch-pad/)** > > Blue Origin plans a tanking test at Cape Canaveral, then a hotfire on the launch pad. So they will be launching this year? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1221 "2024-02-23T13:24:26Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Humans can do large scale engineering. As we can see by casually glancing around, humans cannot do large scale politics. Deep! (Really…a lot to unpack there.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=62)