# The Great Ongoing Space Exploration Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** science-math\ **Created:** [November 16, 2020, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703 "2020-11-16T12:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 83
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1642 "2024-10-22T15:15:39Z")
Struck by debris, struck by meteor, attacked by [???], or it blowed up on its own. Not too many possibilities and I think the first three would have very different debris signatures from the last. Although we recently had a mini-discussion about how a satellite breakup evolves into a debris field and the answer was surprising to some of us laymen. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1643 "2024-10-22T16:54:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > blowed up on its own. I can’t find the cite, but I read speculation that this was the cause (specifically, catastrophic propulsion system failure), but I don’t know the spacecraft or the mission well enough to know if it even had an active propulsion system to fail that way. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1644 "2024-10-22T17:00:35Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > I don’t know the spacecraft or the mission well enough to know if it even had an active propulsion system According to this it did: > **[Intelsat 33e breaks up in geostationary orbit](https://spacenews.com/intelsat-33e-loses-power-in-geostationary-orbit/)** > > The Intelsat 33e satellite has broken up in geostationary orbit and lost power, ceasing communications services for customers across Europe, Africa and parts of Asia Pacific > [@](#): > > Intelsat 33e launched in August 2016 and entered service in January 2017 at 60 degrees East, about three months later than planned following **an issue with its primary thruster** ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1645 "2024-10-22T17:10:44Z")
That’s probably where I read it. If it had been any kind of collision, I think that would have been well-understood and at least leaked out to the news. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1646 "2024-10-22T20:12:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Struck by debris, struck by meteor, attacked by [???], or it blowed up on its own. This was the second of the series to die early, but the first didn’t have a total unscheduled disassembly: > The failure was later attributed to two possible causes. The first was a micrometeorite impact. The second possible cause was said to be a combination of a short circuit caused by solar activity and harness issue within the spacecraft. > **[Intelsat 29e](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_29e)** > > Intelsat 29e, also known as IS-29e was a high throughput (HTS) geostationary communications satellite designed and manufactured by Boeing Satellite Development Center on the BSS 702MP satellite bus. It is the first satellite of the EpicNG service, and covers North America and Latin America from the 50° West longitude, where it replaced Intelsat 1R. It also replaced Intelsat 805 which was moved from 56.5° West to 169° East. It has a mixed C-band, Ku-band and Ka-band payload with all ba The spac... ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1647 "2024-10-22T20:32:43Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > to know if it even had an active propulsion system to fail that way. Geosync comm satellites have to have active propulsion for station keeping. The thing needs periodic nudging to stay in position or it becomes useless or dangerous. Typically you reaction wheels for pointing, but even those can eventually saturate and then you need an attitude thruster burn to offset the desaturation process. As well, for many years now everything in geosync is _supposed_ to have a end-of-life parking propulsion system to get it away from the geosync altitude so its very valuable longitude slot can be reused by whatever is going up there next. Now whether these are ion engines, pressurized inert gas in a tank, or traditional combustible fuel+oxidizer is going to vary by design. But anything that is under pressure can burst, and anything that is flammable+oxidizer can ignite. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1648 "2024-10-22T20:36:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Typically you reaction wheels for pointing, but even those can eventually saturate and then you need an attitude thruster burn to offset the desaturation process. Yep. In LEO you can torque against Earth’s magnetic field, but that doesn’t work farther up. You could probably do station-keeping with solar sails, but no one’s done that yet. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1649 "2024-10-22T21:10:34Z")
I’m sure it would be possible with sails, but it would be complicated and very sensitive to timing. Deploying sails would also add mechanical complexity and failure points, though it might be mass-neutral or even negative. (Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea, but I think it would be a pain in the ass to actually do. Sure would help with shifting EOL stuff to a recycling orbit later on, though.) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1650 "2024-10-22T21:13:58Z")
What sort of station keeping does a geo satellite need? To maintain position because the orbit gets perturbed, or is it losing altitude because Earth is trying to suck it back home, or something else? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1651 "2024-10-22T21:19:22Z")
Correcting for decay and disturbances, as you note, and also for cumulative rotational forces applied during aiming adjustments. ( **LSLGuy** mentioned this element upthread.) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1652 "2024-10-22T22:44:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > What sort of station keeping does a geo satellite need? Without correction, geo satellites will drift to one of two longitudes (75 and 255). ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1653 "2024-10-23T00:01:28Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > Typically you reaction wheels for pointing, but even those can eventually saturate and then you need an attitude thruster burn to offset the desaturation process. > > Yep. In LEO you can torque against Earth’s magnetic field, but that doesn’t work farther up. > > You could probably do station-keeping with solar sails, but no one’s done that yet. Or at least dumping accumulated spin. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2024, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1654 "2024-10-24T02:10:03Z")
I ordered a Crew Dragon from TEMU and this is what I got… [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/hU2TnBe.png "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/hU2TnBe) [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/RUGaI8M.png "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/RUGaI8M) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2024, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1655 "2024-10-24T03:56:52Z")
Looks like they’re copying New Shepard but with much smaller windows. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1656 "2024-10-24T15:45:20Z")
All the space firms scrambling to copy Falcon 9 and Crew Dragon are investing in obsolescence, if in 3-4 years Starship is fully operational. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1657 "2024-10-25T21:53:56Z")
**Boeing may put its iconic space business up for sale and had talks with Jeff Bezos’s Blue Origin, report says** > That could include the company’s Starliner space taxi program and operations related to the International Space Station, but would not include NASA’s massive Space Launch System rocket, the report said. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/boeing-may-put-its-iconic-space-business-up-for-sale-and-had-talks-with-jeff-bezos-s-blue-origin-report-says/ar-AA1sWxKC](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/boeing-may-put-its-iconic-space-business-up-for-sale-and-had-talks-with-jeff-bezos-s-blue-origin-report-says/ar-AA1sWxKC) The paywalled Wall Street Journal article is at: [https://www.wsj.com/science/space-astronomy/boeing-explores-sale-of-space-business-fa7fa3a9](https://www.wsj.com/science/space-astronomy/boeing-explores-sale-of-space-business-fa7fa3a9) So they want to sell Starliner instead of close it down. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1658 "2024-10-27T22:32:06Z")
Huge if true. Huger if it goes through. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1659 "2024-10-27T22:49:10Z")
No idea who would buy them, though. ULA is trying to sell themselves as well. Even at a bargain price… what do they really have to offer? They have some contracts with NASA, but even those don’t seem to be worth much. The window of opportunity for crew flights to the ISS is rapidly closing. Their SLS contracts depend on SLS itself flying, but it’s not clear how many of those there will be. About the only Boeing space program I know of that seems well-run is the X-37 program for the Space Force. It’s flying, has no obvious reliability issues, and the Space Force seems to like it. I’m not sure Boeing is actively making money from it, though. Development is over and the main costs are to the launch providers (like SpaceX). Maybe they make a few refurbishment bucks. The article above mentions Blue Origin, but they’re already undergoing a restructuring to de-old-space-ify themselves and maybe fly an orbital rocket at some point. I can’t see why taking on all of Boeing’s baggage makes sense. And… bringing in Boeing’s space division probably means bringing in their union as well. I’m guessing they don’t want to do that. Could infect the rest of the company. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1660 "2024-10-28T11:23:19Z")
I’d sooner expect it to be sold to some asset strippers like KKR of Ye Olden Dayes. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1661 "2024-10-28T23:46:36Z")
Maybe, but this isn’t like Sears or whatever where they actually have a ton of tangible assets (buildings, property). I doubt they can be converted into a patent troll, either. I suppose they could just sell the trademark rights and we’ll see a bunch of shitty consumer electronics branded with Boeing Aerospace logos. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=82) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=84)