# The Great Ongoing Space Exploration Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** science-math\ **Created:** [November 16, 2020, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703 "2020-11-16T12:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 86
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1702 "2024-12-04T03:19:35Z")
There are sound arguments both ways. The longer the lifespan of any given corporate entity, the more people who can have one-company careers. Which leads to better benefits, better pensions, less uprooting to chase jobs, fewer abandoned company towns, etc. The shorter the lifespan, the more money wasted on churn for churn’s sake, but also the more legit economic efficiency. Where it gets ugly is when all the downsides get assigned to one economic group or class and all the upsides get assigned to a different group/class. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1703 "2024-12-04T03:38:38Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Conglomerates gonna conglomerate. Seeing this on a space exploration thread made me think that they should be called [impact melt breccias](https://sites.wustl.edu/meteoritesite/items/breccias/). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1704 "2024-12-04T20:29:30Z")
An excellent pick for the next NASA administrator: > Isaacman is the one behind the Inspiration4 and Polaris Dawn private missions. Very passionate about space, as well as aeronautics–the first “A” in NASA but seems to get short shrift these days. There is lots of opportunity in aeronautics research, with new interest in supersonics, electric aircraft, VTOL craft, autonomy, etc. Clearly also interested in keeping the commercial space partnership going. And maybe we’ll get that Hubble repair mission after all… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1705 "2024-12-04T22:22:57Z")
Aged like milk: [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/JwmTuIs.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/JwmTuIs) Jared: Look at me. _I’m_ NASA now. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1706 "2024-12-04T23:55:44Z")
The full original article [NASA Doesn't Want Random Billionaires Messing Up The Hubble Space Telescope](https://jalopnik.com/nasa-doesnt-want-random-billionaires-messing-up-the-hub-1851488875) is long on snark and short on substance. When it pauses for breath long enough to stop bashing Jared Isaacman, the short version is that NASA hasn’t decided (as of the article date) whether a repair attempt is worth the potential extension of Hubble’s working life versus the risk of shortening it if the attempt were unsuccessful. And no, neither Isaacman nor Musk would be attempting to be on the repair crew themselves. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1707 "2024-12-05T00:00:46Z")
And note something which undoubtedly comes as a complete surprise: > Billionaire entrepreneur Jared Isaacman, a veteran private astronaut **with strong ties to Elon Musk and his rocket company SpaceX** , has been nominated by the incoming Trump administration to serve as NASA’s next administrator, the president-elect said in a statement Wednesday. > **[Trump nominates Jared Isaacman to serve as next NASA administrator –...](https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/12/04/trump-nominates-jared-isaacman-to-serve-as-next-nasa-administrator/)** So Blue Origin will be filing a lot more lawsuits? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1708 "2024-12-05T00:02:36Z")
Isaacman actually did want to be on the repair crew and proposed paying for the mission himself. NASA said no, though part of their argument was the lack of EVA suits and experience within SpaceX. That’s now changed after the Polaris Dawn mission. As admin, it seems unlikely that he’d still be on any repair crew… but he can certainly push to save Hubble. Cancelling SLS, or at least its future Block iterations, would certainly free up a bunch of dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1709 "2024-12-05T00:03:51Z")
Which sort of saddens me because objectively SpaceX simply **is** almost completely the best option NASA has for operations in space; but this will look like (and might even actually be) favoritism. ETA: I wonder if at some point if NASA officially declared that Hubble couldn’t be saved and shut down operations, if there would be a window in which Hubble could legally be declared salvage, belonging to anyone willing to recover it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1710 "2024-12-05T01:09:20Z")
I don’t think anyone cares about appearances now. NASA is still restricted by acquisition requirements and if they try to bend those they’ll get sued. Isaacman has always demonstrated a high degree of fairness and integrity though, so I don’t expect anything significant there. Blue Origin and others will get contracts if they can bid competitively. It won’t stop people from complaining, of course, but… oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1711 "2024-12-05T19:34:38Z")
> **[NASA once again delays astronaut moon landing, pushing to 2027 | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/05/science/nasa-artemis-moon-mission-landing-delays/index.html)** > > The Artemis program, which aims to return astronauts to the moon this decade amid a renewed international push for lunar exploration, is facing more delays. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1712 "2024-12-05T19:38:00Z")
Anyone want to lay odds that SpaceX will land it first Starship on Mars (unmanned) before Artemis is ready to fly? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1713 "2024-12-05T21:08:09Z")
As a matter of tech & NASA biz / budget as usual, I’d put my money on the Musk side. Given the incoming administration, the fix is in and Artemis will soon be cancelled. Same outcome bet-wise, but for very different reasons of very different legal / moral / ethical validity. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1714 "2024-12-05T21:40:14Z")
Even at a maximally cynical level, why would Artemis be cancelled? SLS, yes. Orion, maybe. But SpaceX is making big bucks from Artemis, and could make even more with SLS off the table. Blue Origin as well. They’ve already been selected as a second lander. Isaacman wants more funding to go to pursuits like saving the Chandra X-ray Observatory and Hubble, and probably a lot of other high bang/buck items. He doesn’t like that there was a second award for an Artemis lander, but even that pales in cost compared to keeping SLS going. Just cut that and there is more than enough to pay for a bunch of other things. There are a dozen other ways to replicate SLS’s role in Artemis. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1715 "2024-12-05T21:49:42Z")
Incidentally, NASA has figured out the heat shield problem: > **[NASA Identifies Cause of Artemis I Orion Heat Shield Char Loss - NASA](https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/nasa-identifies-cause-of-artemis-i-orion-heat-shield-char-loss/)** > > After extensive analysis and testing, NASA has identified the technical cause of unexpected char loss across the Artemis I Orion spacecraft’s heat shield. In short, the issue is that the material isn’t permeable enough. Hot gases built up within the material and caused cracking. The interesting part is that it’s only a problem for a particular flight regime where they used an atmospheric skip maneuver. The heat load from the first dip was retained when the capsule went back into space and this caused the damage. In a hotter and more stressful environment, it’s actually not a problem, because the material ablates away normally before the gases can build up enough to cause damage. At any rate, they’ve reproduced the problem and seem to understand it now, so they can just pick a trajectory with heating rates within the safe areas. They’re also qualifying more permeable material that shouldn’t have the problem at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1716 "2024-12-05T22:00:11Z")
I’m not sure the current space establishment _wants_ Artemis if it doesn’t include SLS and Orion. We’ll see what the new administration brings. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1717 "2024-12-05T22:18:39Z")
That will definitely have to be the needle that gets threaded. But Richard Shelby is gone, and Boeing has lost the last scraps of their reputation, while SpaceX is at their zenith, so maybe with a few promises here and there it can be made to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1718 "2024-12-05T23:14:42Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > so maybe with a few promises here and there it can be made to happen. Something like this, maybe: > **[How did the CEO of an online payments firm become the nominee to lead NASA?](https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/12/how-did-the-ceo-of-an-online-payments-firm-become-the-nominee-to-lead-nasa/)** > > Expect significant changes for America’s space agency. > No final decisions have been made, but a tentative deal is in place with lawmakers to end the rocket in exchange for moving US Space Command to Huntsville, Alabama. (it’s a good article about Isaacman in general, too) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1719 "2024-12-06T00:20:42Z")
From that article: > So how would NASA astronauts get to the Moon without the SLS rocket? Nothing is final, and the trade space is open. One possible scenario being discussed for future Artemis missions is to launch the Orion spacecraft on a New Glenn rocket into low-Earth orbit. There, it could dock with a Centaur upper stage that would launch on a Vulcan rocket. This Centaur stage would then boost Orion toward lunar orbit. That sounds so complicated it could cause problems. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1720 "2024-12-06T00:28:12Z")
Won’t go into the topic as a whole, but NASA is only 0.3% of the total budget. There’s much lower hanging fruit overall. But _within_ NASA, it’s crucial to reduce waste since it competes with other internal projects. We’ve seen a bunch of stuff get canceled or put on the back burner because the SLS budget eats everything. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703/1721 "2024-12-06T00:37:20Z")
The Centaur stage is basically the same as the SLS upper stage. I don’t think the two launches are an issue. Docking might be. It gets easier if you eliminate Orion. I thought it would be funny to use the ISS deorbit vehicle that SpaceX is building for NASA: [![](https://i0.wp.com/spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/usdv-spacex-scaled.jpg?resize=1200%2C675&ssl=1) ](https://i0.wp.com/spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/usdv-spacex-scaled.jpg?resize=1200%2C675&ssl=1) Got a crapton of delta-V with that extended trunk. Haven’t done the math but I’ll bet it’s enough to get to NHRO and back. You could also just load the astronauts on HLS in Earth orbit and forget sending a capsule to the Moon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=85) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-ongoing-space-exploration-thread/925703.md?page=87)