# The Great Phi Theory. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2001, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076 "2001-11-07T23:28:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/181 "2001-11-15T01:25:46Z")
> [@](#): > > This is why I predict that the waves now being measured going faster than light will be measured moving at Golden Mean Ratio MULTIPLES of the speed of light. Here is a prediction that I agree with, this is testable, and I hold it up to the challenge, so come on. Also, I gave you the equation, all you have to do is enter a value for ‘n’ and you will have a value for ‘G’. Phi and C are constant, assuming C is in a vacum. ---
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/182 "2001-11-15T01:30:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > This is why I predict that the waves now being measured going faster than light will be measured moving at Golden Mean Ratio MULTIPLES of the speed of light. > > Here is a prediction that I agree with, this is testable, and I hold it up to the challenge, so come on. > Also, I gave you the equation, all you have to do is enter a value for ‘n’ and you will have a value for ‘G’. Phi and C are constant, assuming C is in a vacum. \*\* I doubt it on your prediction. and I can solve for x = 2y… but that doesn’t tell me a think about gravity. how can I use your calculated G for anything? The formula is useless so far as I can tell. As has been noted before, it is gonna give G in the units of m/s or whatever units that C is expressed in. Pretty useless for a G. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/183 "2001-11-15T01:41:01Z")
Thanks for answering our questions, hero :rolleyes: Why measure gravity in m/s? No response Can we talk directly with your mentor, Dan Winter? No response What about elliptical, cartwheel, and irregular galaxies? They are sick and suffer gravity deficiency On the plus side, I think I can play with your equation a bit. Since a galaxy should have about [2 turns to it’s spiral](http://www.maa.mhn.de/Scholar/Interstmat/ismglxyc.html), n=2, [sym]F[/sym]=1.618, and C=299,792,458 m/s. Therefore: G=299,792,458m/s\*1.618[sup]2[/sup] G=784,833,871m/s throughout a typical galaxy. That is one fast force of attraction. Of course, we have to ignore that gravity is now a speed, gravity is independent of mass, spiral galaxies have multiple arms and do not resemble a single ‘recursive’ spiral, this value matches no predicted or observed data, etc. etc. ad naseum. Speaking for myself, this discussion should be just about over. I’d like [sym]p[/sym] now. I’m quite sick of [sym]F[/sym]. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/184 "2001-11-15T01:47:03Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Also, I gave you the equation, all you have to do is enter a value for ‘n’ and you will have a value for ‘G’. Phi and C are constant, assuming C is in a vacum. \*\* This would be fine, except that big G ought to be a constant too. Unless you’re talking about little g, the force between two objects. And that has to be dependent on mass. There’s no mass in your equation. Plus, as someone already pointed out, if phi and n are unitless constants, you’re measuring G in m/s. This makes no sense whatsoever. And it will continue to not make sense no matter how many times you repeat it. ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/185 "2001-11-15T01:49:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*Thanks for answering our questions, hero :rolleyes: > Why measure gravity in m/s? No response > Can we talk directly with your mentor, Dan Winter? No response > What about elliptical, cartwheel, and irregular galaxies? They are sick and suffer gravity deficiency > > On the plus side, I think I can play with your equation a bit. Since a galaxy should have about [2 turns to it’s spiral](http://www.maa.mhn.de/Scholar/Interstmat/ismglxyc.html), n=2, [sym]F[/sym]=1.618, and C=299,792,458 m/s. Therefore: > G=299,792,458m/s\*1.618[sup]2[/sup] > G=784,833,871m/s throughout a typical galaxy. That is one fast force of attraction. > > Of course, we have to ignore that gravity is now a speed, gravity is independent of mass, spiral galaxies have multiple arms and do not resemble a single ‘recursive’ spiral, this value matches no predicted or observed data, etc. etc. ad naseum. Speaking for myself, this discussion should be just about over. > > I’d like [sym]p[/sym] now. I’m quite sick of [sym]F[/sym]. \*\* Well, I have presented the challenge, I put forward the prediction. ---
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/186 "2001-11-15T01:56:46Z")
Oh, we are supposed to check your prediction for you? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/187 "2001-11-15T02:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > This is why I predict that the waves now being measured going faster than light will be measured moving at Golden Mean Ratio MULTIPLES of the speed of light. > > Here is a prediction that I agree with, this is testable, and I hold it up to the challenge, so come on.\*\* Finally, a testable prediction. Sadly, you’re [wrong](http://focus.aps.org/v5/st23.html). Did I mention you’re [wrong](http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/PVB/Harrison/SpecRel/Superluminal.html)? Please pay special attention to this: > [@](#): > > no part of the pulse is actually transmitted faster than c Can I have some pi now? ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/188 "2001-11-15T03:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mighty Maximino \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > This is why I predict that the waves now being measured going faster than light will be measured moving at Golden Mean Ratio MULTIPLES of the speed of light. > > > > Here is a prediction that I agree with, this is testable, and I hold it up to the challenge, so come on.\*\* > > Finally, a testable prediction. Sadly, you’re [wrong](http://focus.aps.org/v5/st23.html). Did I mention you’re [wrong](http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/PVB/Harrison/SpecRel/Superluminal.html)? Please pay special attention to this: > > > [@](#): > > > > no part of the pulse is actually transmitted faster than c > > Can I have some pi now? \*\* No, your source proves nothing. I am talking about the experiments where light traveled 300 times the speed of light. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/189 "2001-11-15T03:22:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > No, your source proves nothing. > > I am talking about the experiments where light traveled 300 times the speed of light. \*\* **Hiyruu** , considering all the stuff you want us to swallow whole you seem remarkably uninformed about actual scientific research. The two articles that I linked to discuss the experiments that you refer to – like this [news snippet](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_781000/781199.stm) summarizes. Namely, they explain, using CONVENTIONAL RELATIVITY, that light pulses can exceed c as long as no signals do. ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/190 "2001-11-15T03:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mighty Maximino \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > > No, your source proves nothing. > > > > I am talking about the experiments where light traveled 300 times the speed of light. \*\* > > **Hiyruu** , considering all the stuff you want us to swallow whole you seem remarkably uninformed about actual scientific research. The two articles that I linked to discuss the experiments that you refer to – like this [news snippet](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_781000/781199.stm) summarizes. Namely, they explain, using CONVENTIONAL RELATIVITY, that light pulses can exceed c as long as no signals do. \*\* I am talking about the speed of the light that actually DOES exceed C. It maybe only does this in a certain context in this experiment, but it does it nontheless. Under certain conditions the light exceeds C, this is what I am talking about. I quoted this earlier: > [@](#): > > SUMMARY > > We have seen that the microwave tunnelling done by Dr. Nimtz was 4.7 x C, which is a perfect PHI harmonic of 1.618 plus 5 x 0.618. > > The Wigner theory predicted and was confirmed, that at the midgap there was a tunnelling delay time of around 2 fs, a tunnelling velocity of 1:8 c. An almost perfect 3 x PHI 0.618 which equals 1.854, a so slight error that it remains a PHI hit. > Then this summers global media exposures of superluminal tunnelling at 300 x c. 300 x 144,000 nautical miles per grid second (the speed of light) = 43,200,000, a decimal harmonic of 432 and 43,200, which comprises 20,000 dodecahedrons, which each have 2,160° (like the Moons diameter or one Zodical house of precession), which itself is 30 x 72. And the golden triangle is two ascending lines of 72° from the base. 5 of these with their bases at 36° to their neighbours, renders a pentagramme in a pentagon, like 5 cubes tilted 72° on the Y-axis, from the initial cubes -64°, renders a dodecahedron, which has 12 pentagon faces, with pentagrammes visible at the poles. Hence, the dodecahedron is the onederful PHI complex tool for measuring and translating the superluminal PHI relationships. > Then we followed with the Quantum teleportation figures of 2.6 femto seconds with a close proximity to the PHI 2.618, and this being 2.25 x c, or 144,000 x 2.25 = 324,000, which is 9,000 x 36°, and fits a PHI cascaded PHI-complex of 150 dodecahedrons. > Lastly there were the microwave experiments from Italy, where microwaves were propagated at 25% x c. 25% of 144,000 = 36,000, yielding 180,000 nautical miles per grid second, which fits 1,250 pentagon faces, since 180,000 is comprised of 5,000 of those 36° pentagon lines, that make one pentagon face of 5 x 36 = 180°, and it is 2,500 x 72°, the PHI triangle complexion herein is very evident. > Whilst the 4.32 figure still needs verification, when we receive the video, it is a more difficult logic to shape this with PHI, but should it turn out to be 4.3 x c, or 4.3 x 144,000 the result is 619,200 nautical miles per grid second, which is in close proximity to 618. In the early research, tunnelling between 0.5 and 2 femto seconds were evident. The 2 femto seconds have been explored as 1:8 x c. One would also want to find all of the figures that were obtained between 0.5 and 2 femto seconds, to see if the 0.618 and the 1.618 were evident therein, that would be a view from another angle again. Some of the above may be significant, especially the Dr. Nimtz 4.7 x c. This is just the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/191 "2001-11-15T03:51:06Z")
Hiryuu-You have chust dizprooven your “theory” mit your own vords! You say zat ‘Light exceedink ze speed C vill travel at zpeeds vich are multiples of phi.’ ``` But you zen say "Light traveling at 300 times ze shpeed of light." Please be explainink how you haf gotten from a number mit all zose digits after ze decimal point to ze nice whole number of 300. Another Hypothesis ``` Hiryuu is not a name but a mathematical equation. H=iryuu H is ze amount of posts a troll can post before being banned. i is ze bps at which ze troll is connected r is ze number of Clique Dopers currently logged on y is ze ratio between reader apathy and reader frustration u is ze hours of sleep ze mods haf missed zo far zis week. Solving for H, we find H=Phi ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/192 "2001-11-15T04:00:49Z")
I am ending the thread, I have made a satisfactory case, and hope curious people will follow it up. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/193 "2001-11-15T04:32:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\*I am ending the thread, I have made a satisfactory case, and hope curious people will follow it up. \*\* No, you have not made a satisfactory case, for a myriad of reasons that I and others have brought up. I can only assume that we aren’t lucky enough to not have this thread come up again in a future incarnation . . . maybe you should go read some physics textbooks and practice your math in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/194 "2001-11-15T04:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\*I am ending the thread, I have made a satisfactory case, and hope curious people will follow it up. \*\* You CAN’T end this thread. You see this thread is based on Phi and is thus the only thread that will continue into infinity. All other threads will cancel themselves out at some time. But this thread will recurse in to infinity. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/195 "2001-11-15T05:33:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\*Look, the Phi-spiral is simply the geometric expression of the Phi power-series, and because of how the Phi power- series behaves, the spiral is equi-angular from “top” to “bottom”. > > The power series for any other number will result in a spiral that will eventually cause itself to reach a limit, where 1 more recursion would fold over on itself, and you would get a point. \*\* Prove it. You won’t be able to, because it’s bullshit. This one more recursion isn’t going to make the whole thing collapse in on itself. The only thing that reaches infinity here is the number of questions you have failed to answer satisfactorily, or even respond to at all. Reposting a quote does not an answer make. ---
**Author:** ![Gaspode](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gaspode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaspode)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/196 "2001-11-15T05:37:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > > \*\*I am ending the thread, I have made a satisfactory case, and hope curious people will follow it up. \*\* > > You CAN’T end this thread. You see this thread is based on Phi and is thus the only thread that will continue into infinity. All other threads will cancel themselves out at some time. But this thread will recurse in to infinity. \*\* ROFLMAO ---
**Author:** ![DaveW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DaveW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveW)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/197 "2001-11-15T06:43:28Z")
**Hiyruu** wrote: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > This is why I predict that the waves now being measured going faster than light will be measured moving at Golden Mean Ratio MULTIPLES of the speed of light. > > Here is a prediction that I agree with, this is testable, and I hold it up to the challenge, so come on. And the prediction is incorrect. One only needs to do a search for the work of Professor Doctor Nimtz (whom somebody you quoted cites) to find him [quoted] ([http://www.compu-web.com/nimtz.htm](http://www.compu-web.com/nimtz.htm)) as saying: > [@](#): > > _We have sent such a signaling impulse through a test range and measured: What is its speed in comparison to the speed through the air? The speed we measured is 2.46 times the speed of light._ 2.46 is not an integral multiple or power of **[sym]F[/sym]**. It is well over 6% off from the value of **[sym]F[/sym][sup]2[/sup]**, and only 76% of the value of **2[sym]F[/sym]**. Prof. Dr. Nimtz also measured pulses travelling at **9c**. 9 falls between **[sym]F[/sym][sup]4[/sup]** (6.854) and **[sym]F[/sym][sup]5[/sup]** (11.089). 9 is also **5.56[sym]F[/sym]**. So, two measured speeds from _your own primary source_ show that the prediction you agree with is wrong. I predict you will do one of three things:[list=1][li]Not respond,[_]claim that those figures were preliminary, and will be refined with future experiments, or[_]claim that integral mutliples or powers aren’t necessary.[/list=1]#1 I could understand. #2 is a cop-out available anytime things aren’t going your way, and is a plea for us to wait until there’s enough data to apply the Law of Fives effectively. #3 would mean that _any_ speed would fit the prediction, which makes the theory unfalsifiable and therefore unscientific.[/li] Please show me where my prediction is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/198 "2001-11-15T10:48:56Z")
Hiyruu, you still need to demonstrate how your equation is useful. Waverly has already done this and come up with an answer that is blatantly preposterous. So, please, plug in the appropriate numbers for the appropriate variables and show us what your answer means, and how we can verify it independently. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/199 "2001-11-15T13:24:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > Well, I have presented the challenge, I put forward the prediction. > > I am ending the thread, I have made a satisfactory case, and hope curious people will follow it up. There is no meaningful prediction, I worked your equation and came up with a nonsense answer. True to form, you gleefully skip over this evidence, refusing even to comment on it, for fear the fantasy you have propped up will collapse under the scrutiny. You have made no case whatsoever. If you had a modicum of respect for the people on this board, you would have answered direct questions and solved the equation yourself back on page one without withholding the definitions of the terms therin for more than 3 pages. Furthermore, upon finding an absurd solution in meters per second, you would have said, “sorry guys, nevermind.” Your buddy Dan will not be proud, I can only hope you have brought this thread to his attention. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/200 "2001-11-15T13:30:21Z")
Well, I was wrong. Earlier, I defended Hiyruu against what I considered to be pointless and cruel ridicule. Even after he rudely and summarily dismissed my support, I hung in there and asked the other posters to please explain exactly what was wrong with Hiyruu’s, um, ideas. I followed this thread, and now realize that y’all were right and I was wrong. He’s had ample time and opportunity to answer the questions you’ve put directly to him, but in every case, he’s either ignored them or answered with gibberish. Hiyruu, cut it out. Go home now, or else risk being the object of a Lib Parody® in the Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076.md?page=11)