# The Great Phi Theory. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2001, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076 "2001-11-07T23:28:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/161 "2001-11-14T21:07:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by gazpacho \* > > \*\*Do the units match up on those equations? G is a force C is a speed, phi is unit less. They don’t look like they match up to me. \*\* > > Well, the unit for ‘n’ would be “Recursions present”. \*\* Quit tapdancing and perform one single useful calculation with it. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/162 "2001-11-14T21:16:06Z")
Boloney. [sym]F[/sym] is a unitless ratio, n is unitless integer, and you are left measuring a force in units of velocity. At least have the decency to fudge a constant of your own design and give it the proper units to balance the equation. Do you know what an equation is? One side _equals_ the other. N does not equal m/s. Not that you aren’t doing a good job proselytizing, but maybe you could get Dan Winter on here so we can discus this with him directly. I’d be overawed to chat with this ‘unrecognized genius’ who has no need to for the rules of algebra, let alone the laws of physics. ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/163 "2001-11-14T21:20:53Z")
Question: Why are galaxies based on the equi-angular Phi-spiral? Answer: Because it creates the gravity, that holds that galaxy in place. Oh, and here is some information on Phi, and Orbitals: [http://www.evolutionoftruth.com/goldensection/solarsys.htm](http://www.evolutionoftruth.com/goldensection/solarsys.htm) ---
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/164 "2001-11-14T21:32:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\*Question: Why are galaxies based on the equi-angular Phi-spiral? > > Answer: Because it creates the gravity, that holds that galaxy in place. > > Oh, and here is some information on Phi, and Orbitals: [http://www.evolutionoftruth.com/goldensection/solarsys.htm](http://www.evolutionoftruth.com/goldensection/solarsys.htm) \*\* Again, quit tapdancing, and start calculating. ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/165 "2001-11-14T21:32:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*Boloney. [sym]F[/sym] is a unitless ratio, n is unitless integer, and you are left measuring a force in units of velocity. At least have the decency to fudge a constant of your own design and give it the proper units to balance the equation. Do you know what an equation is? One side _equals_ the other. N does not equal m/s. Not that you aren’t doing a good job proselytizing, but maybe you could get Dan Winter on here so we can discus this with him directly. I’d be overawed to chat with this ‘unrecognized genius’ who has no need to for the rules of algebra, let alone the laws of physics. \*\* I just told you that **n** = the number of recursions present. So, **Phi^n** = “Phi recursion present” i.e…(how many times the spiral has re-cursed). ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/166 "2001-11-14T21:35:09Z")
Boloney part two. What about elliptical, irregular, and cartwheel shaped galaxies? Do they not have gravity? [cite for galaxy shapes](http://www.phys.canterbury.ac.nz/~phys159/Astr109/Lecture18.html). Now answer my questions. Why are you measuring the force of gravity as a velocity? Can we talk to your master? Maybe he can answer these questions. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/167 "2001-11-14T21:42:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > > \*\*Boloney. [sym]F[/sym] is a unitless ratio, n is unitless integer, and you are left measuring a force in units of velocity. At least have the decency to fudge a constant of your own design and give it the proper units to balance the equation. Do you know what an equation is? One side _equals_ the other. N does not equal m/s. Not that you aren’t doing a good job proselytizing, but maybe you could get Dan Winter on here so we can discus this with him directly. I’d be overawed to chat with this ‘unrecognized genius’ who has no need to for the rules of algebra, let alone the laws of physics. \*\* > > I just told you that **n** = the number of recursions present. > > So, **Phi^n** = “Phi recursion present” i.e…(how many times the spiral has re-cursed). \*\* For the love of god. I understand what you intend _n_ to be. It is a scalar quantity: the number of recursions. It has no units, please read that post very carefully and tell me how you measure force when the units on the right side of the equation denote velocity (m/s). You are misunderstanding the teachings of someone who has already misunderstood. A very rare and unfortunate occurance. ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/168 "2001-11-14T21:43:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*Boloney part two. What about elliptical, irregular, and cartwheel shaped galaxies? Do they not have gravity? [cite for galaxy shapes](http://www.phys.canterbury.ac.nz/~phys159/Astr109/Lecture18.html). > > Now answer my questions. Why are you measuring the force of gravity as a velocity? Can we talk to your master? Maybe he can answer these questions. \*\* Ahh, but look at your cite, the spiral galaxy appears healthy as galaxies go, the others do not. Phi maintains order. ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/169 "2001-11-14T21:50:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > > > \*\*Boloney. [sym]F[/sym] is a unitless ratio, n is unitless integer, and you are left measuring a force in units of velocity. At least have the decency to fudge a constant of your own design and give it the proper units to balance the equation. Do you know what an equation is? One side _equals_ the other. N does not equal m/s. Not that you aren’t doing a good job proselytizing, but maybe you could get Dan Winter on here so we can discus this with him directly. I’d be overawed to chat with this ‘unrecognized genius’ who has no need to for the rules of algebra, let alone the laws of physics. \*\* > > > > I just told you that **n** = the number of recursions present. > > > > So, **Phi^n** = “Phi recursion present” i.e…(how many times the spiral has re-cursed). \*\* > > For the love of god. I understand what you intend _n_ to be. It is a scalar quantity: the number of recursions. It has no units, please read that post very carefully and tell me how you measure force when the units on the right side of the equation denote velocity (m/s). You are misunderstanding the teachings of someone who has already misunderstood. A very rare and unfortunate occurance. \*\* Where do you get “m/s” from exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/170 "2001-11-14T21:56:28Z")
That is your explanation, hero? Do they have gravity or don’t they? Is that gravity measured in meters per second or Newtons? The non-spiral galaxies are not “healthy”? Please, while I’m over here laughing, look up a cite from a reputable source assessing the health and well being of elliptical galaxies. And for chrissake, answer the questions! After that last post, it is clear that you are trolling. Not even a delusional person would argue that ‘unhealthy galaxies’ are somehow devoid of gravity. ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/171 "2001-11-14T22:00:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*That is your explanation, hero? Do they have gravity or don’t they? Is that gravity measured in meters per second or Newtons? The non-spiral galaxies are not “healthy”? Please, while I’m over here laughing, look up a cite from a reputable source assessing the health and well being of elliptical galaxies. And for chrissake, answer the questions! > > After that last post, it is clear that you are trolling. Not even a delusional person would argue that ‘unhealthy galaxies’ are somehow devoid of gravity. \*\* I did not say they have no gravity, they simply have less gravity. ---
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/172 "2001-11-14T22:02:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > > Where do you get “m/s” from exactly? \*\* All numbers applied to the world have a unit of measure. If I just said, “I have 5”. You would ask, “5 what?” me “Oh, 5 apples… sorry” and you would have a unit of measure. Same with any physical quantity, in this case velocity. me “I am going 300” you “300 what?” me “Oh, sorry again… I am going 300 km/hr” To the more specific with velocity. Velocity is measured in units that are composite. Units of distance per (read devision) unit of time. Common examples: miles per hour, km per hour, feet per second, and typical of physics… meters per second. Now, the big question, if you needed this explained to you, what makes you think you could have the first clue what a good physical theory is. Learning units of measure and coordinate systems is pretty much DAY ONE of any science. This is required to make anything useful. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/173 "2001-11-14T22:15:38Z")
[hijack] Here’s a good debate topic: Does Hiryuu have mysterious psychic powers? I think he must, else how could he get so many apparently intelligent people to continue to debate with him long after it has become clear that his arguments are absurd, and he is obviously completely immune to logic. Unhealthy galaxies? It is to chuckle. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/174 "2001-11-14T22:16:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > > \*\*That is your explanation, hero? Do they have gravity or don’t they? Is that gravity measured in meters per second or Newtons? The non-spiral galaxies are not “healthy”? Please, while I’m over here laughing, look up a cite from a reputable source assessing the health and well being of elliptical galaxies. And for chrissake, answer the questions! > > > > After that last post, it is clear that you are trolling. Not even a delusional person would argue that ‘unhealthy galaxies’ are somehow devoid of gravity. \*\* > > I did not say they have no gravity, they simply have less gravity. \*\* I will say, you have absolutely NO THING that would indicate your statement has even a shred of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/175 "2001-11-14T22:44:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferrous \* > \*\*[hijack] > Here’s a good debate topic: > Does Hiryuu have mysterious psychic powers? > > I think he must, else how could he get so many apparently intelligent people to continue to debate with him long after it has become clear that his arguments are absurd, and he is obviously completely immune to logic. > > Unhealthy galaxies? It is to chuckle. > [/hijack] \*\* I think it is more of a cargo cult type thing. You know in WWII the marines would come to an island by boat and build an airstrip. All of a sudden after that planes would come down from the sky with all sorts of useful cargo. The inhabitants of the islands would see this and build their own airstrips and wait for the planes to land with all sorts of useful cargo. Hiryuu sees that physics involves equations and scientific sounding language so he writes equations and says some science sounding words and now thinks he does physics. ---
**Author:** ![Spanky\_The\_Dolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Spanky\_The\_Dolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spanky_The_Dolphin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/176 "2001-11-14T22:51:35Z")
Let’s hope he never subscribes to the Omega Point Theory. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/177 "2001-11-14T23:58:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hiyruu \* > Phi^n is simply a mesure of how many times the Phi-spiral has re-cursed upon itself. ‘n’ is the number of recursions present. When a Phi spiral is complete it has infinite recursions, but think of a Phi (equi-angular) vortex/spiral emerging in space. When that vortex first emerges it will only have so many recursions, if it is phi-based then more and more recursions will emerge and the spiral will re-cur to infinity. If it is not Phi-based the recursions will eventually cancel themselves out, because they will not be equi-angular. Y’know, I’ve got a theory too. I bet if I got onto a bus and said this, no one would sit next to me. Now that’s a testable proposition! ---
**Author:** ![Hiyruu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hiyruu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiyruu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/178 "2001-11-15T00:26:51Z")
Here are some quotes from Dan Winter that can help explain things: > [@](#): > > Self-Similarity (Fractality) is the Only Way GRAVITY can be created among waves (Pure Principle of Gravity) because it is the Only Way Waves (Charge) Survive COMPRESSION. > > Self-Similarity resolves to the Golden Mean ratio because it is the mathematical essence of self embedding. [danwinter.com/physicsofphi](http://danwinter.com/physicsofphi) > When waves arrange themselves into the perfect pine cone SCREWing up shape of Golden Ratio Embedding [danwinter.com/grail](http://danwinter.com/grail) , they begin adding and multiplying their wave lengths AND VELOCITIES recursively, as the ONLY constructive way thru the speed of light. > [@](#): > > This is why I predict that the waves now being measured going faster than light will be measured moving at Golden Mean Ratio MULTIPLES of the speed of light. ---
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/179 "2001-11-15T01:05:09Z")
Clearly it is time for a repeat of the first reply to the OP… the classic (IMHO) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Greyson3 \* > \*\*my cat’s breath smells like cat food \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076/180 "2001-11-15T01:09:03Z")
Ah! The spell is broken! Who wants pie? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-phi-theory/92076.md?page=10)