When were either of these claimed by Bush? In fact, I recall him claiming the very opposite on both.
If not OBL, then who? The CIA? The Israelis? Haliburton? George W Bush himself?
Care to explain how this is a given? You’re making quite a jump to conclusions there, bucko.
The ONE thing? You been watching too much Tolkien, boy. Did you forget the sanctions imposed on Iraq? Did you forget the no-fly zone? Did you forget that Saddy’s boys have been shooting at our boys pretty much since day one?
And you wonder why nobody takes you anti-war types seriously?
Why should anyone take the pro-war types seriously, SPOOFE, when they continually spout off conspiracy theories like “Sadaam gave his weaons of mass destruction to Syria”?
Ah, they probably believe in UFOs too. Not to mention remote viewing.
They shouldn’t.
But what about the pro-war types that DON’T continually spout off conspiracy theories? Why are they lumped into the same group?
Because at this point it takes a massive conspiracy theory on the order of “Saddam was in with Osama because they’re both Muslim and Arab” to justify the war, a proposition with as much factual horsepower as “Franco was in with Tojo because they’re both Fascist” or some such. I mean, when we were attacked at Pearl Harbor, we went after the guys who actually did it. We didn’t willy-nilly attack Spain, because they weren’t involved, even if Franco was a right-wing dictator just like Tojo.
Hush, vibrotronica, everyone knows SPOOFE is the unanimously elected voice of the people. He implied as much when he said.
Before I read that I thought that there was plenty of reason for taking us Anti War types seriously, what with our turning out to be right on pretty much every single issue and all. But now, now I’m convinced. We don’t matter. We never mattered. Not in early 2003 ,when we were protesting in our tens of millions all over the world. Not now, when every day that passes brings more US & British deaths and injuries, more civilians killed, maimed, widowed and orphaned, more enraged, suicidal zealots with rocket launchers and vests made out of dynamite but not one single weapon of mass destruction. Not ever.
Because SPOOFE doesn’t take us seriously.
Quite a few folks take us seriously.
“52 Percent of Voters Don’t Want to See Bush Re-Elected (44% Do), 37 Percent Strongly Want to See Him Re-Elected, 47 Percent Strongly Do Not.”
Its invisible erosion, the Revenge of the Silent Majority. We Americans are a sentimental and patriotic people. Regretably, this can be used against our own best interests.
Wrap raw bunkum in a flag, and some will feel compelled to respect it. Its an entirely human need to belong, to feel a loyalty. The Bushiviks pander to this and leverage it without a hint of shame. And it works.
But not forever. And the threshold is the point of “respectability”. When the anti-war opinion becomes respectable, and can be stated without embarrassment, then the floodgates open.
When Kerry and company formed the Viet Nam Veterans Against the War was such a moment. The anti-war movement wasn’t yet “respectable”: it was considered exclusively the domain of hairy bug-eyed hippies and Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything (S.W.I.N.E.) The proper subject for Bob Hope’s bath/job jokes.
But when the vets marched with us, when they threw their medals in protest on the Capitol steps, you could feel the impact. No one dared yell “coward” at a man with a sleeve pinned up.
Our leaders love to pour buckets of praise on our troops, standing close enough so that some will spill onto themselves. But these men stood aside. They had the courage to make us see, to force us to look, that no man serves his country by helping it do something dishonorable. Words fail a salute.
That moment of “respectability” has arrived. It is a long time coming. Not even a drip, drip, drip but the relentless clanging of kitchen sinks. Now Madge can speak to Dora at the beauty shop about her doubts, her misgivings. Chuck speaks to Willie while bowling, about his sister’s boy serving overseas, about how much she wants him home and safe. But when Willie speaks of his doubts, his misgivings, Chuck no longer thinks it means that Willie doesn’t support his nephew, he knows that honest doubt exists.
Respectable. The Emperor has no flight suit, and the flag he uses to cover his incompetence and cupidity is not his. It is ours.
And we want it back.
Lots of people think it was the Jews. I heard they had left the building prior to impact.
What about the issue I raised?
Oh yeah. Forgot about that one, didn’t you?
Hehehe. Deception is one of the more important tactics in war. I see no-one has commented on Saddam’s apparent deception. He made us think he had WMD - we may yet find them - and so he paid the price, just as the Germans did in WW2 for thinking that the Pas de Calais was going to be the real site of the D-Day landings; I don’t see a problem with that.
Well, y’know, mindless patriotism DOES seem to be in for some folks this year.
The President of the United States is one thing.
The United States of America is another.
It is possible to support one all the way, while being violently against the other.
Some folks don’t manage that concept very well. Hell, some folks deny it’s even possible. But this IS America, and it IS the 21st century, and “I Am The State” is not a concept for this place or time.
But our current President has been acting like it is, ever since he got in there. And this is why I don’t like the guy. Admittedly, there’s plenty of OTHER things not to like – the dog’s breakfast his policies have made of both wars he started, the lack of planning, and, of course, the fact that neither the will of Congress nor the wishes of the American people seem to mean diddly-squat to him when he wants something.
That means a great deal to me.
And when I say this, some folks just look at me and immediately say “Liberal” or “Bush-basher,” and, having pinned a tag and stuck a label, immediately decide I can’t possibly have any kind of point that needs to be taken seriously.
You want predictions? I’ll give you predictions.
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No weapons of mass destruction will be found. No meaningful evidence of weapons of mass destruction will be found. This lack of evidence will be halfheartedly explained away, and then steadfastly ignored.
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One of two things will happen: we will remain in Iraq for years to come, at the cost of lots more American lives, or we will pull out too soon, triggering political infighting that will cost lots more Iraqi lives. If the second alternative is chosen by our leaders, it will be argued that Iraqis killed in a civil war is better than Iraqis killed by Saddam Hussein because he was in a bad mood that day or whatever.
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Al Qaida will remain functional in Pakistan and launch raids across the border into Afghanistan whenever it likes, for years to come. For some reason, we will not invade Pakistan, although based on our reasoning for invading Afghanistan, we should do just that. Perhaps it is because the leadership of Pakistan claims it does not support Al Qaida, instead of announcing that “Osama Bin Laden is our guest…”
Stunning. Positively stunning.
Ooops. Previous post directed towards qts. Not that friend Wang-ka isn’t stunning as well but more in a black gown with pearls sort of way.
Yes, but you attacked the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, France, Germany, Italy, North Africa, The Phillipines as well as a result of Pearl Harbour.
What amazes me is that you people are trying to characterize ME of being uncivil in those threads. Truly astounding. Jesus, you anti-war types were frothing in those those threads. Spittle flying everywhere. Collounsbury was BANNED because he couldn’t keep a civil tongue in his head. Get a grip, and get some perspective.
As for being a political ‘fool’… Let’s just wait and see who comes out on the right side of history on this one. In the meantime, perhaps we should start some threads detailing the predictions of those of you who declared that there were going to be tens of thousands of casualties, that the ‘Arab Street’ would rise up, that the war would throw the middle east into chaos, that it was going to be a quagmire of Vietnamesque proportions, etc. ad nauseum.
You guys were wrong about almost all your predictions, so I guess it would make sense that you’d cling so hard to the WMD issue. It must suck to have all your other rugs pulled out from under you.
Yes; it’s eerie, the tenacity with which people pay attention to the central justification for a war, isn’t it? It’s almost as if lives were at stake…
Said it before, say it again: To heck with the WMDs. MY issue is that one man, acting without a Congressional declaration of war, has started not one war, but TWO.
(…black gown and pearls…?)
Actually, the reason why we’ll never invade Pakistan is that they demonstrably have nuclear weapons. It’s the same reason we’re not going after North Korea and why we never went after the Soviet Union. It has nothing to do with “cooperation” or anything else, it has everything to do with the fact that if Pakistan pops off a nuke at us (popping off nukes in anger is something they’ve seemed willing to do) we’ll retaliate, India will launch, and there’s no telling what China and Russia will do.
Realpolitik rules the day on Pakistan.