# The great social norm and good manners thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560 "2005-06-16T16:08:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/21 "2005-06-17T02:27:48Z")
Do you have a certain population in mind? As mentioned by **Beware of Doug** , these things change depending on where you are. For instance, in your original post you mention “how close to stand when talking to folks.” This is going to vary. I like my space, as do a most of Americans with whom I have discussed this. I have had a two Europeans (not the best sample, I know) tell me that they feel rather weird and slightly offended when we keep backing away from them in conversation. I guess we can compromise to minimize irritation. I propose: When talking to someone, be aware of his/her body language and adjust the space accordingly (within your comfort zone, of course). ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/22 "2005-06-17T02:37:43Z")
The gracious acceptance of gifts is a win-win situation. Even if a gift is atrocious, one should be pleased that the giver made the effort, and one should act appreciative. Criticism of the gift or failure to say “thank you” will result in hurt feelings, as well as fewer gifts in the future. The effects of one’s behavior can be gauged by taking note of the response of the person(s) with whom one is interacting. If you talk about the something a lot, but no one ever asks you about it, they’re not interested. If you’re talking, and the other person is not responding to what you’re saying, you’re boring them. If you send people glurge, chain letters, cute stories and other mass email, and they never mention it and never respond and never send you similar material, it means they wish you would stop sending it. If someone keeps backing away from you, you’re too close. There are a million examples of this, but it boils down to being aware that other people exist in their own right, not just as objects to reflect you. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/23 "2005-06-17T03:03:36Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Do you have a certain population in mind?.. For the most part, I am thinking of the culture of the USA. Think of tips that we could give people that are too thick to actually observe how those around then react, but can remember and follow rules. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/24 "2005-06-17T03:03:43Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Do you have a certain population in mind?.. For the most part, I am thinking of the culture of the USA. Think of tips that we could give people that are too thick to actually observe how those around them react, but can remember and follow rules. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/25 "2005-06-17T04:38:59Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > How is this good manners? It sounds like it’s treating children like crap. How about respecting all people, regardless of age? Actually, with very few exceptions, _everyone_ should use last names until they’re given permission to do otherwise. I can tell when someone mistakenly thinks they’re one of the exceptions, because they’re calling me “Matthew,” which they’ve read off of some form, not “Matt,” which is the first name I tell people to use. (The exception is my family, none of whom have gotten the hang of “Matt.”) ---
**Author:** ![Ender\_Will](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/26 "2005-06-17T06:40:53Z")
My humble suggestion to this list would be to stay off the cell phone when you’re talking to someone in person. And yes, the cashier or barrista you’re talking to for 35 seconds across a counter counts as a person. I’m going to stop there, before I get started on a Pit-worthy rant. And yes, I do have a cashiering job. How’d you guess? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/27 "2005-06-17T06:48:23Z")
**Personal space** is directly inversely propotional to population density. Stand {------------------------ this far --------------------} away from Australians and Canadians. And { --------------- this far ---------------- } away from Americans. { ------- this far --------- } away from Brits. { — this far — } from Hong Kongers and Japanese, etc. This knowledge is very important. Too far away, and you’re stand-offish. Too close, and you’re a sleaze or untrustworthy. As an Australian, I _will_ step back if you get in too close, and it will be quite subconscious on my part. I really had to concentrate on not being bothered by this when I was in Asia. ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Woodruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sarah\_Woodruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarah_Woodruff)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/28 "2005-06-17T08:17:55Z")
> [@swampbear](#): > > Or in a public restroom. :dubious: Speaking of which, people apparently need to be told that, if you’re in a public restroom, using a toilet cubicle and making toilet cubicle-related sounds, _don’t answer your bloody mobile phone! You’re sitting on the freaking toilet for goodness’ sake!_ I was standing at the sink, washing my hands, alongside another girl, at David Jones one day. This girl went into a cubicle, closed the door, then came rustling paper noises…and then she answered her phone. “Hi Becky! Yeah, I’m shopping! Yeah, I’m in the loo right now though!..” WTF? The girl at the sink and I caught each other’s eyes in the mirror and burst out in horrified laughter. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/29 "2005-06-17T08:53:09Z")
> [@carlotta](#): > > Just because I’m talking doesn’t mean I’m not listening to you. > > Seriously, this is probably one of the hugest cultural differences I come across…length of pause that constitues an uncomfortable silence. In my family, especially my mother’s extended family (Lawng Island) this length is nearly nothing. > > I’ve had to school myself to maintain pauses that feel extremely awkward to me just so other people don’t feel they can’t get a word in edgewise. The two people I know from Louisiana require the longest pauses I can imagine. > > There’s no right answer to this one, just something for people to be aware of, that it may not be that someone is slow and dull (pause required longer than yours) or a self-involved interrupter (pause required shorter than yours), they may just come from a slightly different background. So, this would be the “Help me…I’m talking and and I can’t shut up!” module? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/30 "2005-06-17T09:12:22Z")
Another bit about how to behave in public restrooms, _Don’t_ spray your hair! You’re spraying it into my lungs, and they don’t need big hair! I once worked in an office where the receptionist had been raised by howler monkeys. If one needed to be away from the phone for a bit, she had to know ( even though our phones had forwarding to voice mail after 4 rings.) So, I tell her I was going to be away from my desk for a bit. On a break? she’d forward my calls to the break room. To the Loo? She’d come to the door and howl in that I had a call on line 1. One day I asked why she did such rude things, and she was speechless. She had no clue she was being annoying. Ah! She is the inspiration for one more area. Don’t ask deeply personal questions to someone you barely know. For that matter, anyone you work with. The first question she asked me while I was at lunch on my first day there was “So, is your husband good in bed?” :dubious: Oh, and have we covered telephone manners? As in how to have a conversation? Hello? Good Bye? Babble Babble Babble? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/31 "2005-06-17T12:04:24Z")
I think “Social Skills 101” is a perfectly good name. It leaves “etiquette” out, and it leaves moral judgement out. Bad social skills don’t mean that you’re a jackass. It also emphasizes that social skills are something that you have to _learn_. Some folks have innate talent. Some folks were taught from an early age by their parents. Some were taught a particular social skill that does not translate well into other situations. (Like **carlotta** example of “Long Island” type speech patterns. I’m from Long Island as well, and unfortunately, at my current job, I find I’m being perceived as argumentative. I don’t mean to be at all. I explained this to my coworkers, and am trying to change this pattern. Fortunately, my coworkers are being understanding and helpful with this.) The above point about removing dark glasses brings to mind an example from my past. When I was raft guiding, the raft manager would wear his sunglasses–mirrored, btw–when conducting our morning meeting, and often when talking to us one-on-one. It did make people uncomfortable. He had excellent social skills otherwise, and just had no idea that it made him seem really aloof and that it made it hard to talk to him. Finally, someone someone said something to him. He asked around a bit, and others confirmed that he should take off the shades in those situations. And from then on he did. He made a joke of it, but I think he really kind of felt bad that he had inadvertently made people uncomfortable. > [@monstro](#): > > Since many, if not most, social graces are culture-dependent, I would say the one skill a human should have would be adaptability and social awareness. Being able to take cues on how to behave from others in the environment will help anyone “fit in”, which seems to be what the OP is talking about. So, [patting your head](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321416) repeatedly is right out, then? I agree that adaptability and social awareness is most important, but if you don’t even have the basics down, you can’t learn adaptability. Overall, it’s better to err on the side of being too reserved than on the side of being too forward. As we saw in the above linked thread, even if we leave out the weird racial issue, some people don’t mind being touched by coworkers, and others do. It’s better to err on the side of not touching. Some people need to be taughtwhat to do if they’re not sure of the situation. And some folks just need to be bluntly told some things. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560/32 "2005-06-17T12:10:41Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Actually, with very few exceptions, _everyone_ should use last names until they’re given permission to do otherwise. Thank you, **matt\_mcl**. I’m glad to know I’m not the only stuffy old fart here. > [@Ruken](#): > > It sounds like it’s treating children like crap. How about respecting all people, regardless of age? How is requiring the proper form af address treating someone like crap? A five year-old is not my peer, and should not address me as though he is. Don’t get me wrong, I repsect children. I respect them even more when they are well mannored and behaved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-social-norm-and-good-manners-thread/308560.md?page=1)