# The Great Un-Fork Hillary Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 12, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458 "2015-04-12T00:17:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/461 "2015-05-05T17:03:46Z")
Because there’s a pony in there somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/462 "2015-05-05T17:15:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Now I can’t wait for the NEXT set of general election polls. Are you really going to quote my questions and not even hint at answering any of them? Is your plan to wait around for a poll in which Clinton does poorly just so you can say, “Bam free fall. Nailed it”? Or do you have the integrity to admit that you may have overstated, just an eency weency bit, the negative effect that the Clinton Foundation story would have on Hillary’s poll numbers. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/463 "2015-05-05T17:23:08Z")
Clinton has not bottomed. Her approval in the poll you linked to shows that she’s still dropping. The probable reason it hasn’t reflected in her head to head numbers yet is because voters are waiting for an alternative. The GOP candidates are still mostly unknown. Is she in free fall? Yes, at least on the approval side. The damage in head to head matchups seems to have stopped for now. Good news for Republicans? Absolutely. Once a candidate emerges from the pack they’ll get a bounce and I don’t think Clinton is capable of winning from behind. She’s a classic frontrunner, overly cautious, and doesn’t know how to campaign as an underdog. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/464 "2015-05-05T17:26:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The damage in head to head matchups seems to have stopped for now. The only kind of matchup there is? > [@](#): > > Good news for Republicans? Absolutely. Yep. Pony. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/465 "2015-05-05T17:30:04Z")
Check out those honesty numbers. Even most Democrats aren’t willing to say she’s honest anymore. How can any candidate get elected with that baggage? All voters want is a choice. For a large number of them, Clinton is the only name they are familiar with in these polls. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/466 "2015-05-05T17:34:53Z")
The desperation is strong with this one. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/467 "2015-05-05T17:39:10Z")
Yeah, our defeat is certain, that’s why all of our best candidates can’t wait to jump in. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/468 "2015-05-05T17:42:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, our defeat is certain, that’s why all of our best candidates can’t wait to jump in. Fools rush in and all that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/469 "2015-05-05T17:45:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > all of our best candidates can’t wait to jump in. \*These \*people are your best? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/470 "2015-05-05T17:47:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, our defeat is certain, that’s why all of our best candidates can’t wait to jump in. Best? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/471 "2015-05-05T18:04:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Clinton has not bottomed. Her approval in the poll you linked to shows that she’s still dropping. The probable reason it hasn’t reflected in her head to head numbers yet is because voters are waiting for an alternative. The GOP candidates are still mostly unknown. I think being “unknown” is a _good thing_ for most of these Republicans. If Americans aren’t willing to pick them now, just wait until they get a good idea about what they want! I’m being sarcastic, but I see no reason why becoming “known” will be more likely to be beneficial to these candidates compared to their level of recognition by the public now. > [@](#): > > Is she in free fall? Yes, at least on the approval side. The damage in head to head matchups seems to have stopped for now. “free fall” is ridiculous hyperbole. She had a really big advantage in the previous set of polls and she has a big advantage in the latest set. That’s not “free fall”. Free-fall implies weakness and very low numbers. > [@](#): > > Good news for Republicans? Absolutely. Once a candidate emerges from the pack they’ll get a bounce and I don’t think Clinton is capable of winning from behind. She’s a classic frontrunner, overly cautious, and doesn’t know how to campaign as an underdog. I expect there will be a few bounces, but it’s rather premature to assume that such a bounce will place them ahead of Clinton (should she be nominated). And looking at the 2008 primary, Hillary’s worst campaigning and worst campaign decisions were while she was a frontrunner, not when she was significantly behind. Her best campaigning was late in the campaign, IMO, when she was scrambling to catch up. And she almost did. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/472 "2015-05-05T20:01:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, our defeat is certain, that’s why all of our best candidates can’t wait to jump in. Almost all the potential GOP candidates are a joke. Yes, a joke. Sadly, the only serious one looking to get in is Jeb, who has a “certain amount” of baggage dragging behind him. If Kasich gets in, then there’s a serious candidate, but he’s got very low name recognition and a huge uphill battle. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/473 "2015-05-05T20:15:29Z")
[Kasich’s going to run.](http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-03/odds-of-john-kasich-presidential-bid-pretty-good-) He’ll have to explain taking Obamacare money, but then their last \*nominee \*was the creator of Romneycare, so it can be done. Refusal to embrace the worst of his party’s nativism is another weakness for him. But he’s an expert at pissing people off. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/474 "2015-05-05T21:36:04Z")
Well, that’s certainly a major plus! But is it enough to hold back the rising tide and momentum of the Draft Romney! movement? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/475 "2015-05-05T23:20:54Z")
Binders full of candidates … ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/476 "2015-05-05T23:49:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Almost all the potential GOP candidates are a joke. Yes, a joke. Sadly, the only serious one looking to get in is Jeb, who has a “certain amount” of baggage dragging behind him. If Kasich gets in, then there’s a serious candidate, but he’s got very low name recognition and a huge uphill battle. And a candidate the public doesn’t trust is somehow more serious? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/477 "2015-05-06T00:21:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And a candidate the public doesn’t trust is somehow more serious? You haven’t yet established that less-than-perfect marks on honesty and trustworthiness are killers for candidates. If you believe this is a serious negative that could threaten Hillary’s chances, _back it up_. Show us the polling for honesty and trustworthiness in 2012, 2008, 2004… back as far as you want (I’d be especially interested in 1996), and see if there’s an actual correlation between winning and loses. Making effective arguments sometimes takes some effort. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/478 "2015-05-06T00:32:16Z")
As opposed to just declaring all the GOP candidates clowns without statistical data to back that up? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/479 "2015-05-06T00:35:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As opposed to just declaring all the GOP candidates clowns without statistical data to back that up? [Clown car.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=511831) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/480 "2015-05-06T00:56:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And a candidate the public doesn’t trust is somehow more serious? The public doesn’t have to trust a candidate to vote for them. (Most voters don’t trust any politicians very much.) They just have to trust them more than the opposing candidate. Or not even trust them – just prefer voting for them over the other candidate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458.md?page=25)