# The Great Un-Fork Hillary Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 12, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458 "2015-04-12T00:17:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1041 "2015-08-18T12:43:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > She’s far more honest and accurate than the Republicans for the most part. These things are measured and tracked, at least as much as they can be (it’s impossible to read candidates’ minds, so all we can compare are statements to the facts), and Hillary is better than most Republicans. No, it’s not. And has any Republican referred to fact checks that call them wrong as evidence that they are right? She says stuff knowing that most people won’t check. > [@](#): > > So bullshit. Considering how much more dishonest/inaccurate most of the Republicans have been (including guys like McCain that you like), I could say the same thing about you and Republicans, with more factual basis – but I won’t, because that would be silly. It’s just different understandings of concepts like honesty and accuracy, and different emphases on different aspects of these. Well if you believe she’s honest and trustworthy, then more power to you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1042 "2015-08-18T13:16:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s an election, it’s all about perception. Now you’ve got people who have gone to jail for mishandling classified info claiming a double standard. Does anyone actually think the Obama administration would ever charge Clinton, no matter what the evidence turned up? So there will always be the perception that once again, the rules are different for the Clintons. Not exactly the perception you want when you’re running in an election that is in large part going to be about inequality. “All about perception” is referring to politics – “moral failing” is referring to morality. The two things are unconnected. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1043 "2015-08-18T13:18:03Z")
If you prefer a dishonest Democrat to an honest Republican, that’s a moral failing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1044 "2015-08-18T13:21:03Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I’m for socialized medicine. Like Hillarycare? She was there first, remember. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1045 "2015-08-18T13:21:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, it’s not. And has any Republican referred to fact checks that call them wrong as evidence that they are right? She says stuff knowing that most people won’t check. Bullshit. > [@](#): > > Well if you believe she’s honest and trustworthy, then more power to you. Compared to me and my wife? No. Compared to the Republicans? Absolutely. Compared to other Democrats? Not sure, and still deciding. This is part of my decision making progress, but not the only part. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1046 "2015-08-18T13:24:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you prefer a dishonest Democrat to an honest Republican, that’s a moral failing. Let me know if there are any honest Republicans in the race. I know of none that are less dishonest/inaccurate than Hillary. Further, it’s not necessarily a “moral failing” to prefer a dishonest candidate to an honest one. I’d much prefer a dishonest candidate who I thought was likely to avoid a stupid war then an honest candidate who would blunder into one. In my opinion, preferring an honest warmonger (not that I know of any – McCain and Graham are warmongers, but they’re dishonest too… maybe John Bolton?) to a dishonest candidate who would avoid a stupid war is a moral failing, but I won’t state that as an objective assertion. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1047 "2015-08-18T13:24:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “Potentially classified” doesn’t mean classified Right, it means \*not \*classified. > [@](#): > > we still don’t know where this is anything at all. But we have pretty good suspicions anyway. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1048 "2015-08-18T13:28:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Let me know if there are any honest Republicans in the race. I know of none that are less dishonest/inaccurate than Hillary. > > Further, it’s not necessarily a “moral failing” to prefer a dishonest candidate to an honest one. I’d much prefer a dishonest candidate who I thought was likely to avoid a stupid war then an honest candidate who would blunder into one. > > In my opinion, preferring an honest warmonger (not that I know of any – McCain and Graham are warmongers, but they’re dishonest too… maybe John Bolton?) to a dishonest candidate who would avoid a stupid war is a moral failing, but I won’t state that as an objective assertion. Clinton is a warmonger, so you don’t have a leg to stand on there either. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1049 "2015-08-18T13:30:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Clinton is a warmonger, so you don’t have a leg to stand on there either. Yes I do – Clinton recognizes how big a mistake the Iraq war was, and she supports the Iran nuclear deal. The Republicans don’t. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1050 "2015-08-18T13:56:46Z")
As I mentioned in the other thread, she recognizes it’s a mistake in a Democratic primary. That mistake did nothing to dampen her enthusiasm for intervention during her term as Secretary of State. I know you’re smarter than to weigh campaign rhetoric over a candidate’s actual record. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1051 "2015-08-18T14:05:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As I mentioned in the other thread, she recognizes it’s a mistake in a Democratic primary. That mistake did nothing to dampen her enthusiasm for intervention during her term as Secretary of State. I’m unaware of her advocating for invading any country with ground troops as SoS. And while I oppose the bombings, _it’s still better than Republicans’ record and rhetoric_. > [@](#): > > I know you’re smarter than to weigh campaign rhetoric over a candidate’s actual record. Absolutely – I consider them both. And considering them both, she is far less likely to get us into another dumb war than the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1052 "2015-08-18T14:19:14Z")
Well, if you’re content to spend the next 4-8 years dropping bombs in several countries, okay then. You say you’re not content with it, but your electoral choices say otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1053 "2015-08-18T14:20:33Z")
“Bomb, bomb Iran …” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1054 "2015-08-18T14:21:18Z")
That’s Democratic policy too, if they get close to a bomb. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1055 "2015-08-18T14:22:39Z")
Enough. Cites? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1056 "2015-08-18T14:26:20Z")
[http://www.rt.com/usa/obama-netanyahu-iran-monday-545/](http://www.rt.com/usa/obama-netanyahu-iran-monday-545/) The US “won’t take any options off the table, including military action" to ensure that Iran does not develop nuclear weapons, ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1057 "2015-08-18T14:27:03Z")
I think you know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1058 "2015-08-18T14:35:57Z")
Explain it to me. If Iran gets close to a bomb and there’s no diplomatic solution, we bomb regardless of who is in office. If that’s not true, explain to me how it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1059 "2015-08-18T14:38:29Z")
> [@you](#): > > Well, if you’re content to spend the next 4-8 years dropping bombs in several countries, okay then. To repeat: Enough. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458/1060 "2015-08-18T14:49:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **adaher** : > > By taking money from taxpayers rather than creating wealth. Government jobs, like all jobs, create wealth, and in the process take money from customers and give it to workers. The distinction you are drawing is meaningless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-great-un-fork-hillary-thread/717458.md?page=54)