# The Greatest American
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 27, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750 "2005-05-27T13:27:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/1 "2005-05-27T13:27:30Z")
AOL and The Discovery Channel have undertaken a joint project for Americans to vote on the “The Greatest American.” There are 100 nominees from which to choose; voting starts June 5.
My vote will go to George Washington.
We wouldn’t have the country we have, but for Washington. He led the Continental Army through eight years of hard-fought revolution, holding the army together sometimes by sheer force of will. He lost more battles than he won, but learned from his mistakes and won when it counted, at Boston, Trenton, Princeton and Yorktown. He respected the civilian authority of Congress and ensured that no military dictatorship would seize power, and willingly resigned his commission as general-in-chief in 1783, even when some of his officers urged him to become a king.
Although he would have preferred to remain a gentleman planter, he agreed to leave his beloved Mount Vernon and serve as president of the Constitutional Convention in 1787, lending his prestige in support of the Constitution’s later ratification.
The American Presidency was created with him in mind, and he practically invented the job. He served very capably, maintaining American neutrality from France and Britain, which were at war, and preserving national authority during the Whiskey Rebellion. He assembled an all-star Cabinet, including Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton (although he was unable to keep them from feuding politically). He then insisted on retiring after two terms, establishing a precedent that would hold until FDR ran for a third term in 1940.
Washington was a man of unfailing courage, honor, and determination, and I think he was the greatest American.
Check out the AOL/Discovery list of nominees, and tell us who you support, and why.
---
### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/2 "2005-05-27T14:18:37Z")
[Link to web page](http://tv.channel.aol.com/greatestamerican).
Interesting list.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/3 "2005-05-27T14:39:56Z")
The worst list of its kind I’ve ever seen. Apparently John Adams, James Madison, Walt Whitman, Ulysses Grant, and Robert E Lee were not quite as significant as Laura Bush, Ellen Degeneres, Tom Hanks, Dr. Phil, and Pat Tillman. And of course Bob Dylan can’t hold a candle to Madonna.
I’ll second the vote for Washington, but what a crappy nomination list.
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/4 "2005-05-27T14:51:28Z")
After looking of the list I agree. Very odd names to be choosing from. It’s 50% historically significant people like Washington and Franklin and 50% pop culture icons that are still alive today like Tom Hanks and Brett Favre. It seems rather silly to compare the two sets at the same time.
Well, what can we expect from AOL? _shrug_
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/5 "2005-05-27T15:36:45Z")
Washington, no question. But as far as second place goes, I’m having a hard time selecting between Dr. Phil, Rush Limbaugh, Donald Trump, and Martha Stewart. Nothing says “America” like a blowhard, and it’s just so tough to decide. I’m very upset that they left out Al Franken and Bill O’Reilly.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/6 "2005-05-27T16:10:05Z")
Good God Awmighty. Let me list the silliness.
A
Angelou, Maya
Armstrong, Lance
B
Ball, Lucille
Bush, Barbara
Bush, GHW
Bush, GW
Bush, Laura
C
Carson, Johnny
Carter, Jimmy
Charles, Ray
Clinton, HR
Clinton, WJ
Cruise, Tom
D
DeGeneres, Ellen
E
Eastwood, Clint
Edwards, John
F
Favre, Brett
G
Gates, Bill
Gibson, Mel (!!!)
Guiliani, Rudy
H
Hanks, Tom
Hefner, Hugh
Hepburn, Katherine
Hope, Bob
J
Jackson, Michael
Jobs, Steven
Jordan, Michael
K
Kennedy, JF
Kennedy, RF
Kennedy-Onasis, Jackie
L
Limbaugh, Rush
Lindbergh, Charles
Lucas, George
M
Madonna
McGraw, Dr Phil
Monroe, Marilyn
Moore, Michael
N
Nixon, Richard
O
Obama, Barack
Owens, Jesse
P
Powell, Colin
Presley, Elvis
R
Reagan, Ronald
Reeve, Christopher
Rice, Condeleeza
Ruth, Babe
S
Sagan, Carl
Schwarzenegger, Arnold
Sinatra, Frank
Spielberg, Steven
Stewart, Jimmy
Stewart, Martha
T
Tillman, Pat
Trump, Donald
W
Walton, Sam
Wayne, John
Winfrey, Oprah
Wood, Tiger
The compilers of this list deserve a good swift kick in the balls.
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### Author:  [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/7 "2005-05-27T16:12:03Z")
I died a little inside when I saw Rush Limbaugh next to Abraham Lincoln.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/8 "2005-05-27T16:20:48Z")
> [@treis](#):
>
> I died a little inside when I saw Rush Limbaugh next to Abraham Lincoln.
And I, when I saw Michael Moore next to Marilyn Monroe.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/9 "2005-05-27T16:42:08Z")
Well, at least Nixon stands all by himself. 🙂
The list is beyond silly. AOL, good one.
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### Author:  [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/10 "2005-05-27T17:04:01Z")
Just to give you an idea of who the UK picked when the BBC originally did this.
Top 10 where. Starting from 1 going to 10
1 Winston Churchill
2 Isambard Kingdom Brunel
3 Diana, Princess of Wales
4 Charles Darwin
5 William Shakespeare
6 Isaac Newton
7 Queen Elizabeth I
8 John Lennon
9 Horatio Nelson
10 Oliver Cromwell
Apart from Di that’s a pretty good list.
I now return you to the discussion of the US list.
If GW wins I will laugh so hard it will make me sick 🙂
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### Author:  [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/11 "2005-05-27T17:09:34Z")
The equivalent Canadian list.
1 Tommy Douglas
2 Terry Fox
3 Pierre Elliott Trudeau
4 Sir Frederick Banting
5 David Suzuki
6 Lester B. Pearson
7 Don Cherry
8 Sir John A. Macdonald
9 Alexander Graham Bell
10 Wayne Gretzky
Not bad. So long as we toss out Mr. Cherry.
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### Author:  [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/12 "2005-05-27T17:21:07Z")
I think that Benjamin Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr., George Washington and James Madison have to be the top 4, but I have no idea what order they’d go in.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/13 "2005-05-27T17:58:32Z")
> [@Kid\_A](#):
>
> The equivalent Canadian list.
>
> 1 Tommy Douglas
> 2 Terry Fox
> 3 Pierre Elliott Trudeau
> 4 Sir Frederick Banting
> 5 David Suzuki
> 6 Lester B. Pearson
> 7 Don Cherry
> 8 Sir John A. Macdonald
> 9 Alexander Graham Bell
> 10 Wayne Gretzky
>
> Not bad. So long as we toss out Mr. Cherry.
Amusingly, AG Bell makes the AOL American’s list, too.
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/14 "2005-05-27T18:32:00Z")
No Thomas Jefferson?
Bugger that.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/15 "2005-05-27T19:07:55Z")
I thought Jefferson was on the list.
And Barack Obama must be having one heck of a first term in the Senate to make the top 100.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/16 "2005-05-27T19:28:03Z")
Gibson, Mel (!!!)???
Um…I don’t really follow the ‘stars’ much, but…Mel Gibson isn’t an American, is he? Isn’t he Austrailian or something? (shows how much I know or care about those people.)
List is just ridiculous.
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> And Barack Obama must be having one heck of a first term in the Senate to make the top 100.
Seems just a tad premature, but maybe they have a time machine or something.
-XT
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/17 "2005-05-27T20:01:49Z")
> [@rjung](#):
>
> No Thomas Jefferson?
>
> Bugger that.
Jefferson’s there. Right next to [shudder] Michael Jackson.
That Brit list is pretty impressive. Newton, Shakespeare, Darwin and Churchill are all-world. So are the Beatles for that matter. Of course England’s had more time than us. We’ve only had a couple hundred years to work with.
The Canadian list makes me what a shallow American dolt I can be when it comes to history. I’ve never heard of half the names on the list and two of the ones I do know are a hockey player and a hockey announcer.
Some of those names on the US list are ridiculous. I’m not sure if I could pick just one. Washington is a solid choice in some ways but he _was_ a slave owner, so it might be argued that he wasn’t a great embodiment of American values with regards to egalitarianism, personal freedom and civil rights.
Some of the names I would choose in no particular order:
Harriet Tubman
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Edison
Mark Twain
Malcolm X
Martin Luther King
Teddy Roosevelt
Franklin Roosevelt
Louis Armstrong
Rosa Parks
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/18 "2005-05-27T20:03:47Z")
Mel Gibson is a US native, born in Peekskill, NY. His father moved the family to Oz when Mel was a lad. [Bio](http://www.tiscali.co.uk/entertainment/film/biographies/mel_gibson_biog.html).
Who wrote this stupid-ass crap? I demand a person’s name, someone to take the deserved thrashing. John Edwards (I assume not John Edward), but not Thomas Edison or Franklin Roosevelt?
AOL I can almost understand, but Discovery?
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### Author:  [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/19 "2005-05-27T20:09:08Z")
Gibson was born in NY IIRC. The British top 100 had Bono and Bob Geldof and they are Irish.
Looking over the list it is pretty bad. How were they chosen? I’d guess the public?
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### Author:  [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-american/305750/20 "2005-05-27T20:50:54Z")
Wow…I’ll add my brand to the fire. Suck-o list.
I’m plopping Thomas Jefferson on the top of my list…having read a few things about him, I feel that he wan not only a top-notch thinker, but really warranted the name “Framer”. It seems to me that he was very far-seeing.
As far as #2-4, I’d have to put Ellen DeGeneres, Tom Hanks, and Madonna. Better, wiser people have never had their hands on the tiller of the USA.
Ugh.
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