# The Greatest Baseball Player **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 4, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811 "2008-06-04T23:32:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/1 "2008-06-04T23:32:27Z")
I’m sure this has been done before, but I searched (briefly) and didn’t find anything. Who do you think is the greatest baseball player? I’m a lifelong Yankees fan, but my vote goes to… Ted Williams. Ugh… I tried not to. Willie Mays was my first choice, then the Babe (the pitching really makes him unworldly.) But, I can’t get past William’s hitting and time lost to the service. Two wars took years from his career. Factor in his average stats for the lost years and he’s even more amazing. Your thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/2 "2008-06-04T23:45:53Z")
I can’t imagine saying anyone but Babe Ruth. Aside from his fabled home runs, he was an excellent pitcher, and though it generally took a back seat to his power, he was a very good baserunner as well. Is there anyone in baseball history who had that broad a skill set, and was so consistently excellent at them all? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/3 "2008-06-04T23:47:00Z")
As a Mets fan it hurts, but Alex Rodriguez is going to go down in history as the best player ever to play the game. Just hope he gets a ring or three to cap it off. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/4 "2008-06-04T23:49:35Z")
Tough call I like Shoeless Joe, Rose, Ruth,Cobb,Mays,Mantle,Williams,Shlabotnik ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/5 "2008-06-04T23:49:45Z")
I will still give it to the Babe. He wasn’t just a bit better than the hitters of his day, he was revolutionarily better and that after being a Hall of Fame caliber Lefty Pitcher to start his career. He was a great fielder early on and his Batting average and slugging average were out of this world. Ted Williams was not a great fielder and obviously never pitched. I find it hard to support your argument when even Ted Williams readily admitted Joe D was the greatest living baseball player. Joe D was the complete package. He lost a prime chunk of his career to WWII and was a righty in Yankee Stadium. Willie Mays was a much better fielder and nearly as good a hitter and far better base runner. I have just dropped Ted Williams to 4th at best. I need to think more about this, Ted might be 4th best on my list and yet I would pick Lou Gehrig over him if I was drafting. I would also seriously consider Yogi and Bench before Ted. Jim ETA: I had a quick thought: Outfield: Mays DiMaggio Ruth Infield A-Rod Banks Morgan Gehrig Catcher: Yogi DH: Williams ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/6 "2008-06-05T00:03:54Z")
Jim, you know I respect your opinion, but just as a comparison: Career Slugging %: Williams .634 Mays .557 Gehrig .632 Ruth .690 OPS+ : Williams 191 Mays 156 Gehrig 179 Ruth 207 (!!) BA: Williams .344 Mays .302 Gehrig .340 Ruth .342 HR: Williams 521 Mays 660 Gehrig 493 Ruth 714 Ruth obvously wins, but Williams is a clear 2nd. If he didn’t lose those years to the war… ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/7 "2008-06-05T00:09:24Z")
Complete player? Willie Mays Most consistently great player? Henry Aaron The player who’d make you drop everything to run to the ball park to watch? Babe Ruth Best player before injuries caught up with him? Mickey Mantle I could come up with other categories that would include DiMaggio, Williams, Stan Musial, Barry Bonds and a few others. And let’s not even get into pitchers. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/8 "2008-06-05T00:12:16Z")
From my childhood, a sentimental favorite: Roberto Clemente. An extremely talented player and a class act. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/9 "2008-06-05T00:19:43Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] Tough call I like Shoeless Joe, Rose, Ruth,Cobb,Mays,Mantle,Williams,Shlabotnik [/QUOTE] I’ll bite. Shal-who? Who is this that gets put on this list ahead of Tris Speaker? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/10 "2008-06-05T00:21:12Z")
**MadTheSwine** called it. Joe Shlabotnik is unquestionably the Greatest Ever. Ok…Williams. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/11 "2008-06-05T00:25:05Z")
[QUOTE=Diomedes] I’ll bite. Shal-who? Who is this that gets put on this list ahead of Tris Speaker? [/QUOTE] Here ya go. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe\_Schlabotnik#Joe\_Shlabotnik](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Schlabotnik#Joe_Shlabotnik) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/12 "2008-06-05T00:26:08Z")
I understand the feeling that Ruth is the boring choice, but I think the way he dominated the league is incomparable. Second place goes to Sidd Finch. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/13 "2008-06-05T00:26:52Z")
These discussions always involve a lot of assumptions like, do you count Negro Leaguers? Do you give credit for players who missed time to WWII? Do you discount steroid era players, or players who played before integration? Do we count guys who could make it like A-Rod, but aren’t there yet? My inclination is to say “I’m just going to figure who helped their teams win the most from 1901 on, and accept that I don’t know enough about Negro Leaguers to judge them” and the hell with anything else, save some credit for missing time to wars. So I’m going with: 1. Babe Ruth 2. Honus Wagner 3. Willie Mays 4. Barry Bonds 5. Ted Williams 6. Ty Cobb 7. Stan Musial 8. Henry Aaron 9. Walter Johnson 10. Mickey Mantle Big props to Joe DiMaggio, but it doesn’t matter what Ted Williams did or didn’t say; Williams was greater. If I was putting together a team: 1B: Gehrig 2B: Morgan SS: Wagner 3B: Schmidt C: Bench/Berra platoon, but Josh Gibson was possibly even better RF: Ruth CF: Mays LF: Bonds DH: Williams SP: Johnson I suppose you could make an argument that A-Rod has been a better player than Mike Schmidt, but 1. So far I don’t think he has surpassed Schmidt, though he likely will someday, and most importantly, 2. He’s played most of his career as a shortstop, not a third baseman, and Wagner is easily the best shortstop. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/14 "2008-06-05T00:28:01Z")
[QUOTE=Southern Yankee] Jim, you know I respect your opinion, but just as a comparison: Career Slugging %: Williams .634 Mays .557 Gehrig .632 Ruth .690 OPS+ : Williams 191 Mays 156 Gehrig 179 Ruth 207 (!!) BA: Williams .344 Mays .302 Gehrig .340 Ruth .342 HR: Williams 521 Mays 660 Gehrig 493 Ruth 714 Ruth obvously wins, but Williams is a clear 2nd. If he didn’t lose those years to the war… [/QUOTE] But you said “Greatest Baseball Player” not “Greatest Hitter”. Ruth wins no matter what but Williams was a hitter, he was an average fielder and average baserunner. Mays and DiMaggio were better all around players. As I said Williams admitted DiMaggio was the best ball player. Somewhere there is a quote where Ted actually said that he (Ted) was the best hitter of their generation but DiMaggio was the best player. Jim ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/15 "2008-06-05T00:33:02Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I understand the feeling that Ruth is the boring choice, but I think the way he dominated the league is incomparable. Second place goes to Sidd Finch. [/QUOTE] I would love to see Shlabotnik bat against Finch. Bloop bunt single but gets thrown out trying to stretch it into a double? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/16 "2008-06-05T00:39:59Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] I would love to see Shlabotnik bat against Finch. Bloop bunt single but gets thrown out trying to stretch it into a double? [/QUOTE] But he was especially good at washing cars IRC. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/17 "2008-06-05T00:44:23Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] As I said Williams admitted DiMaggio was the best ball player. Somewhere there is a quote where Ted actually said that he (Ted) was the best hitter of their generation but DiMaggio was the best player. [/QUOTE] This is a pretty weak argument. Who cares that Williams said that? Diego Maradona said that Di Stefano was the better player, but he’s never in the conversation for the best soccer player. Just because one player respects another doesn’t mean their evaluation of them is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/18 "2008-06-05T00:49:27Z")
Ruth then Bonds, or Bonds then Ruth. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/19 "2008-06-05T00:51:36Z")
[QUOTE=Snarky\_Kong] This is a pretty weak argument. Who cares that Williams said that? Diego Maradona said that Di Stefano was the better player, but he’s never in the conversation for the best soccer player. Just because one player respects another doesn’t mean their evaluation of them is accurate. [/QUOTE] Fine is this solely about hitting? Or about all aspects of play? How much more valuable is a great Center Fielder than an average at best corner Outfielder? This is where the question lies for me. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811/20 "2008-06-05T00:53:28Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Fine is this solely about hitting? Or about all aspects of play? How much more valuable is a great Center Fielder than an average at best corner Outfielder? This is where the question lies for me. [/QUOTE] No, it’s about the whole thing. That’s how I read it. I’m just commenting that one player’s opinion isn’t a definitive bit of evidence on the relative quality of two players. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-baseball-player/451811.md?page=2)