I agree humanity hasn’t changed that much over 50 or 100 years. I think people are getting smarter over time and are up to future challenges.
But the challenges, as mentioned, are much more diffuse and nuanced. Smarter people ask more questions. Not accepting quasi-official views at face value means society is more divided. An important enough cause could probably bridge many of these divisions. People have always been more similar than different, race (for example) is literally a few millimetres deep.
I’m not that fond of terms like “the greatest generation” and real heroes never use the term. Nevertheless, I was pretty impressed by the horrible conditions endured by good people who could not have foreseen the chaos and complexity of a thousand tough issues. I don’t think these sacrifices should be soon forgotten.
I’m a millennial and I wouldn’t welcome taxes, especially not to fight the things you listed, but if there were a real existential threat, something like another Nazi war machine gobbling up European countries every couple of weeks, and a Pearl Harbor, or another 9/11, or some nuking of American cities, I’d be on-board with serious sacrificing to kick the shit out of the responsible party.
Hell, I’d buy war bonds tomorrow if it meant we starting killing the IRGC.
Why stop at war bonds? Why not enlist today? Even if we don’t go to war with Iran, there’s always ISIS, Al Queda, the Taliban, etc, etc. and if we do go to war, you’ll be all trained up in time to go boots on ground as part of the initial invasion.
IMHO most “generation” labels are bogus unless we count birthrate spikes following any casualty-filled wars. Even there, and way beyond, a US “generation” is by no means monolithic, deeply divided by ethnicity, religion, class, education, politics, location, etc.
Let’s measure “greatness”: count military members at any point in time. What is the ratio of volunteers to draftees? How does an eligible age group that must be compelled to join compare to an all-volunteer military? Which is braver?
As 100% volunteers, the current US military forces are obviously the bravest in history. Yes, it’s a loaded metric; the draft ended way back when (just before I enlisted) and the last US draftee retired five years ago. I’m open to any better “greatness” measure. Whip it out if you’ve got it.
I much prefer your “bogus” label. In fact, I’d go so far as to say not only is the 4-generation cycle bunk, but the very notion of labeling individuals according to generational membership is dubious. Some millennials are in Iraq. Some millennials are in jail for drug offenses. Some millennials are on Wall Street. And there’s even a few millennials working minimum wage and living with their parents.
What do all of these people have in common? Honestly, apart from being born inside a largely arbitrary 20-year span, I haven’t a clue. Some may well be soft, some may be broken, and others may be unwavering to a fault.
I don’t see why current generations couldn’t do what the WW2 one did. It’s just that the external circumstances aren’t there to require that level of commitment. You could say that climate change might be one, but unlike the attack on Pearl Harbor, the climate change message doesn’t cut deep enough to reach each and every single American.
It’s easy to forget that before Pearl Harbour, America itself was divided as to whether to join the war or not, and the non-interventionists were the majority.
Not for the Air Force – maximum age for enlistment is 39.
Further, if you have a college degree, there are officer programs in which you probably meet the age limits (or could apply for a waiver), and could apply to attend Officer Candidate School (OCS).
If you do go the OCS route, I’d be happy to provide some advice – I attended Navy OCS in the early 'aughts and it was, by far, the most physically demanding and stressful experience of my life. I’m sure other Doper vets would be happy to give you advice and encouragement as well.
Please keep the board updated as to your progress in your desire to serve in the military – it can truly be a very honorable and rewarding experience. We’d be very interested to see how it goes for you!
As mentioned upthread, “The kids are alright”. They’re not hard charging 17 year old warriors with a Garand in their hands and Nazi guts in their boot soles, but they’ve never had to be. I can’t remember my neighbors’ first names because we’re all at work during the day and doing evening family/household stuff afterward. Industries aren’t shifting their production to entirely new hardware because they’ve not had to (and the unions would go apeshit if they tried anyway). If the USA got legit attacked and there was a real threat of ongoing attack (like, “War” attack, not “refugees begging succor after a perilous journey through deserts & banditos” attacked) the kids would bitch for maybe 7 days about having to put away their PS4/XBone and start doing adult stuff, and then they’d rise to the occasion and kick unprecedented ass because overall they are smarter, wiser, and better nourished than their post-depression counterparts. Yeah, the kids have it easy, but if you’ve ever seen 'em riled up you know the best thing to do is step out of the way.
Now hold on. It’s possible HD has already served. I wouldn’t want to assume anything. I should have been more careful about that.
The point is, and in addressing the post, It’s just that I’ve only ever encountered such rancor toward the IRGC among people who’ve had to interact with their naval component in the Gulf, or gone up against their suspected handiwork (they’ve been, uh, suspected of supplying aid to insurgents, including with the construction of some really nasty IEDs). Beyond that, I don’t know why someone would be so enthusiastic about killing off the IRGC.
The changes described in the OP really came from the government and the business owners. Families definitely did sacrifice when a family member went to war, or when a woman went to work, but the American People weren’t all “hey let’s build plane noses instead of baby dolls!” Like **ASL **pointed out upthread, the business owners still got paid (who doesn’t want to work for the government on military projects in times of war?) and the people who worked got paid too.
I’ve long thought that we could have a new “greatest generation,” this time fighting Climate Change rather than Nazis. Have mines that dig silicone instead of coal, factories that make solar panels instead of cars, wind turbines instead of planes.
I thought “what if people did recycling in the same vein as they did tire drives and nylon drives for the war effort? What if we had ration books for fossil fuels and plastic bags?”
I did some digging and wasn’t able to find any info on how people were super stoked about ration books and scrap drives. All I found were mentions of how people didn’t really like that stuff at all and it was really hard to get them to do it, and they weren’t too successful.
So, pretty much like if you presented it today.
I see a path for us to build a new “Greatest Generation” but it’s not going to be possible through people. It’s not even really going to be possible through business owners and billionaires. It has to come from the government in a way where we’re (“we” as in business owners on down) forced to live and work and make money in a different way, and we all have to be rallied to accept it, and it has to be beneficial to all. It’s absolutely possible, the markets are there. But it will never happen without strong, unified and passionate leadership from the top down.
We had this debate in one of iiandyiiii’s threads, and my opinion was that it’s not cowardice when a hawk hasn’t enlisted, so long as they register for selective service (if male) and don’t dodge a draft, and encourage their children of age to do the same.
Our friend in question may actually regret not having ever served. Maybe he had young children or other things going on. Now maybe the children are grown up but he’s too old to volunteer. I know people who feel that way, and I don’t see room for mockery.
I was having a similar discussion w/ someone IRL recently.
I think several factors contributed to the “unity of purpose” exhibited by “the greatest generation.” First, a great percentage of the population was affected by the significant phenomena of the Depression and then WWII. The limited media contributed to more consistent reactions to those phenomena. So, in one respect, they were “fortunate” that the challenges they faced were so significant, and seemingly so universal.
However, I question the “deification” of someone just because they are of a certain age. Yes, a great number of people in the early 20th century seem to have accomplished a great deal. Of course, it helped to NOT be black, or female. And, even of the white male achievers, I suspect there were a good percentage who were downright assholes.
every contemporary account I’ve ever read by Americans serving in WWII or living in America during the war is pretty honest about the shirkers, the draft dodgers, the war profiteers, the lazy and selfish, the opportunists, the goldbricks, the greedy landlords, the black marketeers, and the loudmouth rear-echelon MF’ers. Pretending America was marching in lockstep with eyes shining with patriotism, everyone sacrificing equally for Victory, well, that’s a nice Hollywood B-picture, but I don’t believe it accurately reflects the facts.
:dubious: