# The greatest musical in the world is... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305 "2009-04-16T17:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/1 "2009-04-16T17:13:14Z")
Stephen Sondheim’s Passion, of course. It was written by the greatest lyricist of the age. It starred the magnificent Donna Murphy. It’s Phantom of the Opera, only minus the stupid stuff. Yep. The mere existence of Passion is evidence of a loving and beneficent God, and its too-brief run on Broadway was part of the waning of magic in the world. No other musical even comes close; only a fool of a Took would argue otherwise. Or maybe not. We shall see. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/2 "2009-04-16T17:16:48Z")
All right-thinking people know that _1776_ is the greatest musical in the world. Either that, or _The Mikado_. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/3 "2009-04-16T17:20:21Z")
It’s possible I have an opinion on this subject. I’d vote for _Evita_–everything works, and it’s such an orginal idea. If anyone in the entire freaking universe ever does _Chess_ right, it will be the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/4 "2009-04-16T17:28:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > All right-thinking people know that _1776_ is the greatest musical in the world. :eek: Put down the pipe-weed, man, and take a long walk outside. Once you have breathed the free air again, you will see the folly of your words, which I can only attribute to the deceits of Sauron. The best thing that can be said for _1776_ is that it is not currently assailing me with its cacophony. [QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] It’s possible I have an opinion on this subject. I’d vote for Evita–everything works, and it’s such an orginal idea. [/quote] Ah, Evita. From Andrew Lloyd Webber’s non-sucky period. I miss those days, but they are no more likely to come to us again than the King to Minas Tirth. [QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] If anyone in the entire freaking universe ever does Chess right, it will be the winner. [/QUOTE] While I can’t agree that entirely, you are, nonetheless, very wise in this assessment. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/5 "2009-04-16T17:31:34Z")
Sondheim? You’re kidding, right? Clever lyricist, but the lousiest songwriter in the history of Broadway. For musical comedy, that goes to **The Drowsy Chaperone**. For serious musical, it’s hard to top **Les Miserables**. Honorable mention to **The King and I**. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/6 "2009-04-16T17:39:21Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Sondheim? You’re kidding, right? Clever lyricist, but the lousiest songwriter in the history of Broadway. > > For musical comedy, that goes to **The Drowsy Chaperone**. > > For serious musical, it’s hard to top **Les Miserables**. Honorable mention to **The King and I**. In a perfect world your slander of the Great One wold not go unanswered, but sadly I have sworn off swearing revenge. But you bring up a good point: it might be wise to distinguish between comic and serious muiscals. Sondheim still wins that of course, as _Inoto the Woods_ is the greatest of that line, and anyone who says differently is an Entwife. Only don’t mention Les Miz to me, lest I cry. Damn you and your stupid brain, Marius. I mean, seriously, who chooses **Cossette** over **Eponine**? ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/7 "2009-04-16T17:48:40Z")
I am irrationally fond of both _West Side Story_ and _Hair_, having listened to their soundtracks a lot in my formative years. Both still give me goosebumps. I agree that \*Evita \*is a contender. \*Avenue Q \*made me wet myself laughing and I think it is a uniquely perfect piece for my generation (who learned to read by watching _Sesame Street_). As a diehard non-cynical postmodernist, \*Moulin Rouge \*delights me on six or seven levels. Can movies play? I… I have never seen _Passion_ or even heard any of its songs. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Emily\_Litella](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emily_litella/32/3370_2.png) [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/8 "2009-04-16T17:49:28Z")
Nope, West Side Story was/is the greatest musical in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/9 "2009-04-16T17:55:54Z")
I’d go with either Chicago or Gypsy. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/10 "2009-04-16T17:57:33Z")
> [@emmaliminal](#): > > I am irrationally fond of both _West Side Story_ and _Hair_, having listened to their soundtracks a lot in my formative years. It is impossible to be irrationally fond of West Side Story. That is like being irrationally fond of those double-chocolate cookies Tollhouse used to sell in the 70s and only stopped s part of a conspiracy to make me sad and lonely. Bastards. A pox upon them and their children and their children’s children. What was I talking about? Oh yeah, WSS. It is, like Passion & Woods, the greatest musical in the history of the universe. Also Les Miz. And now that I’m thinking about it, Miss Saigon. But not Martin Guerre, which was produced by the same people who got rid of the aforementioned Tollhouse cookies. > [@](#): > > As a diehard non-cynical postmodernist, \*Moulin Rouge \*delights me on six or seven levels. Can movies play? Yes, but not Moulin Rouge. Sorry, but we don’t cotton to that Nicole Kidman chick in these parts, not after what she did to poor Tommy. > [@](#): > > I… I have never seen _Passion_ or even heard any of its songs. :([/SIZE] Don’t worry. That is not your fault. It’s society’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/11 "2009-04-16T18:00:35Z")
For me, it’s _My Fair Lady_, with _The Music Man_ finishing a close second. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/12 "2009-04-16T18:00:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Only don’t mention Les Miz to me, lest I cry. Damn you and your stupid brain, Marius. I mean, seriously, who chooses **Cossette** over **Eponine**? Well, I mean, by the time he actually figures out that Eponine loves him, she’s kind of dying, so it’s a bit of a moot point, ya know? A lot of the plot of _Les Miz_ would have been obviated if they had just given Eponine an Act I song entitled “Marius, I Love You, Now Let’s Go to Your Apartment.” The greatest musical ever written is called _Parade_, by Jason Robert Brown and Alfred Uhry. The second greatest musical ever written is _Sweeney Todd_. _Passion_ is the seven millionth greatest musical ever written, just behind _Carrie_ and slightly ahead of _The Sound of Music._ ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/13 "2009-04-16T18:01:09Z")
I’d have to go with West Side Story or South Pacific. What do I know though. I’m still waiting for one about the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/14 "2009-04-16T18:02:17Z")
> [@Emily\_Litella](#): > > Nope, West Side Story was/is the greatest musical in the world. I believe that is correct. The sheer brilliance of the Bernstein music, with Sondheim doing what he’s good at (lyrics), pushes it past everything else. There’s a reason so many songs from it have become cliches. The greatest musical not yet mentioned in this thread is **A Chorus Line**. The greatest musical written in the past 5 years and which I thus have not yet had time to fully rank is **Spring Awakening**. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/15 "2009-04-16T18:06:24Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Well, I mean, by the time he actually figures out that Eponine loves him, she’s kind of dying, so it’s a bit of a moot point, ya know? A lot of the plot of _Les Miz_ would have been obviated if they had just given Eponine an Act I song entitled “Marius, I Love You, Now Let’s Go to Your Apartment.” Marius was a pompous wanker with delusions of adequacy. And he was perfectly aware that Eponine loved him. He sent her off to Cossette with the message because he wanted to dissuade her in as gentle a fashion (for HIM) as possible, and because of the aforementioned pompous wankerhood. Nonetheless you get points for using the word “obviated.” ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/16 "2009-04-16T18:12:19Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Marius was a pompous wanker with delusions of adequacy. > > And he was perfectly aware that Eponine loved him. He sent her off to Cossette with the message because he wanted to dissuade her in as gentle a fashion (for HIM) as possible, and because of the aforementioned pompous wankerhood. Are we talking about the book or the musical here? Because I’ve listened to that entire score more times than I’m willing to admit in public, and I can’t see any evidence that he’s anything more than a clueless doof who thinks that Eponine is flirting with him because they’re friends and she’s goofing around. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/17 "2009-04-16T18:17:52Z")
There’s only one answer, and that is **Sweeney Todd**. (OK OK, or perhaps **West Side Story** ), and **Les Miserables** is one of my favorites as well. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/18 "2009-04-16T18:21:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It is impossible to be irrationally fond of West Side Story… No it isn’t. I can be both rationally and irrationally fond of it. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > …It is, like Passion & Woods, the greatest musical in the history of the universe. Also Les Miz. And now that I’m thinking about it, Miss Saigon. :eek: Did you actually just imply that \*Miss Saigon \*is in the same league as _WSS_? I may need to go lie down now. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Yes, but not Moulin Rouge. Sorry, but we don’t cotton to that Nicole Kidman chick in these parts, not after what she did to poor Tommy. I burning your Tommy. I burning him with the flame of ten thousand crispy Thetans. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/19 "2009-04-16T18:31:17Z")
The movie version of **Cabaret** with Liza deserved every Oscar; great cast, great cinematography; great adaption of the story and excellent music. Otherwise, I think this question is almost impossible to answer. I have seen crappy musicals performed by great casts that made them memorable, and I have seen great musicals performed by crappy casts that made them horrible. That is the excitement of live theater - you never know. It is sometimes hard to separate a musical from the performers. I have seem some regional musical theater productions with one or two really talented performers that have stolen the show and made an otherwise miserable experience worth the effort. I have seen professional Broadway productions destroyed because the leads were having an “off performance” that night (cold/flu/personal problems - or even an understudy). It is a lot easier to critique a movie version of a musical, as that remains the same every viewing. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/20 "2009-04-16T18:33:08Z")
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