# The greatest musical in the world is... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305 "2009-04-16T17:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/21 "2009-04-16T18:34:42Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > There’s only one answer, and that is **Sweeney Todd**. :smack: Okay, clearly I have gone mad, as I forget Sweeney. Clearly it, like Passion, WSS, Les Miz, ITW, and MS, is the single greatest exemplar of the art of musical theatre. And, um, Follies. [QUOTE=emmaliminal] > [@](#): > > Skald the Rhymer > It is impossible to be irrationally fond of West Side Story… No it isn’t. I can be both rationally and irrationally fond of it. [/QUOTE] I took “irrationally fond” to mean “fond to an unreasonable degree,” not “fond for silly reasons.” The former is clearly as impossible as not being in love with Natalie Portman. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/22 "2009-04-16T19:04:28Z")
42nd street its got great songs but doesn’t take itself too seriously. The musical that has the truest title has to be Damn Yankees it also has some great songs. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/23 "2009-04-16T19:20:18Z")
I think Man of La Mancha should get some sort of mention here. I’m not sure about ‘greatest musical in the world’, as there are so many things about Man of La Mancha that are well outside the normal expectations (the flamenco-influenced score, the play-within-a-play, the really very dark subject matter) but I think it’s an outstanding piece. Any love for Assassins out there? Again, it think it’s more noteworthy for innovation and pushing the boundaries than for in any way consolidating and epitomizing the form, but I also think it’s a fantastic show and one of Sondheim’s strongest scores. For a typical musical, I’d nominate ‘Oklahoma’ for an ideal summation of the musical form that had gone before, but with a stronger script than had ever been set by Rogers and Hart, Cole Porter or the Gershwin brothers. The musical numbers in those last three were my absolute favourites in the form, but the shows were never all that good. Crazy for You, maybe, but there was something kinda weird about the whole ‘let’s write a new book and pastiche the best Gershwin tunes into something new’ aspect. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/24 "2009-04-16T19:28:51Z")
If we include movie musicals, then the hands-down winner has to be **Paint Your Wagon**. I mean come on, you have the angelic voices of the world’s two greatest singers, Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![De\_La\_Rue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@De\_La\_Rue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/De_La_Rue)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/25 "2009-04-16T19:41:46Z")
You are all wrong. The greatest musical in the world is easily _Stop the Planet of the Apes, I Want to Get Off_. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/26 "2009-04-16T19:45:27Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Sondheim still wins that of course, as _Inoto the Woods_ is the greatest of that line, and anyone who says differently is an Entwife. **Into the Woods** is one of Sondheim’s best, no doubt. The music never rises above mediocrity, or course – just tuneless chanting like all of his work – but you expect lousy music from Sondheim. But it’s not his funniest – **Forum** is much funnier and at least has a couple of actual songs in it. Sondheim’s best work was when he had an actual composer writing the music. **West Side Story** and **Gypsy** have great music. Other stage musicals that I think rank as the greatest: **Kiss Me Kate Damn Yankees The Pajama Game Guys and Dolls A Chorus Line Annie Get Your Gun My Fair Lady Chicago** For movie musicals, there is only one: **Singin’ in the Rain**. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/27 "2009-04-16T19:48:35Z")
_The Wicker Man._ ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/28 "2009-04-16T20:01:26Z")
> [@Labdad](#): > > For me, it’s _My Fair Lady_, with _The Music Man_ finishing a close second. I would reverse that, only on odd days, and throw _Singing In The Rain_, into the mix. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/29 "2009-04-16T20:02:43Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > The Bitter Suite Sorry. But we’ll give it an Honorable Mention as “Greatest Musical Episode of a TV show.” ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/30 "2009-04-16T20:51:40Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Sorry. But we’ll give it an Honorable Mention as “Greatest Musical Episode of a TV show.” a-HEM. **Once More With Feeling.** I love most of those already mentioned, for their own unique strengths and flaws. I will throw one more out there: **Company.** ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/31 "2009-04-16T21:00:10Z")
West Side Story. Case Closed. But not the movie version. PLEASE redo it someday with peeps who can sing! ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/32 "2009-04-16T21:01:53Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **Into the Woods** is one of Sondheim’s best, no doubt. The music never rises above mediocrity, or course – just tuneless chanting like all of his work – but you expect lousy music from Sondheim. But it’s not his funniest – **Forum** is much funnier and at least has a couple of actual songs in it. Agreed. I really wanted to like Sweeney Todd, but the songs were so blah to me. I liked the atmosphere of the movie, but all the songs put me to sleep. Except for maybe Pirelli’s Magical Elixir and Mrs. Lovett’s Meat Pies which are the same song with different lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/33 "2009-04-16T21:10:00Z")
My favorite is _Les Miz_. Oh, you street urchins, you idealistic rich young men, you reformed criminal cum mayor cum criminal – how I love you! You all die at the end – so romantically! – and still I love you. You have one of the worst songs to ever see the light of day, that obnoxiously saccarine little girl’s song (_There is a castle on a cloud . . ._) that gets stuck in my head for days, but still _je t’aime_! But I think the better, more objective argument for best evah is _West Side Story_. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/34 "2009-04-16T21:11:11Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > a-HEM. **Once More With Feeling.** You neglect two crucial facts: 1. OMWF features both Alyson Hannigan and Nicholas Brendan singing. Admittedly, Mrs. Denisof only sings two lines, but those two lines last a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very long time, or perhaps it only seemed so to me because my ears were bleeding the entire time. And as for Xander’s song–well, during the original broadcast, seventeen dogs in my neighborhood went spontaneously rabid at the sound of him singing “You’re the cutest of the scoobies.” 2. The Xena producers were not only wise enough to keep Renee O’Connor from singing, but also shows her naked. Mid-90s RoC naked is, like Sondheim, proof of a benevolent God. > [@](#): > > I love most of those already mentioned, for their own unique strengths and flaws. I will throw one more out there: **Company.** Brilliant in its way, I will concede. But it is still in the lesser tier of Sondheim–which is of course 83595 times better than “Cats.” ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/35 "2009-04-16T21:18:16Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > I will throw one more out there: **Company.** My cousin did the costumes for the latest revival of _Company_ on Broadway (2006-2007) so I have a soft spot for it, but I never found either the plot or the songs particularly remarkable or memorable. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/36 "2009-04-16T22:22:51Z")
I can only narrow it down to eight, in alphabetical order: \*Funny Girl Guys and Dolls Gypsy My Fair Lady Show Boat South Pacific Sweeney Todd West Side Story \* Are we including film-only musicals? Then I’d have to add _Meet Me in St. Louis._ ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/37 "2009-04-16T22:46:38Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > I will throw one more out there: **Company.** :smack: Yes, **Company** is definitely up there, as is **Sunday in the Park With George**. I still think **Sweeney Todd** is a better overall musical than those two, but they rightly deserve much praise. In fact next week I am seeing a production of **SITPWG** in Seattle that uses the recent London/Broadway revival staging & effects but also will showcase a full orchestra (which was not done in either London or Broadway.) ---
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/38 "2009-04-16T22:59:04Z")
> [@Labdad](#): > > For me, it’s _My Fair Lady_, with _The Music Man_ finishing a close second. Yes and yes. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/39 "2009-04-16T23:14:35Z")
Uh, yeah, I was beginning to worry about the SDMB when no one mentioned **Sweeney Todd** until half the thread went by. I won’t even dignify the idea that the music is tuneless. _Johanna_, tuneless? _My Friends_, _Ballad of Sweeney Todd_, _Green Finch and Linnet Bird_, freakin’ _ **NOT WHILE I’M AROUND** _, tuneless? It is to laugh. True, it’s more of an opera in style, and if you’re looking for a peppy four bar melody with standard verse and chorus, you ain’t gonna get it in _Sweeney_ (or much of Sondheim, though he does offer a few now and then). But the music is fucking _glorious_, the lyrics genius, the story gripping and heartbreaking. If you only know ST from the movie, for God’s sake do yourself a favor and see a live version, or at least the Angela Lansbury/George Hearn video. Although the film’s use of full orchestra rocked hard, the score was castrated due to time, the lack of vocalists (don’t get me started on Helena Bonham Carter), and the horrific decision to cut the chorus – IMO an act of barbarism on par with anything Sweeney Todd did. 😃 But I’ll accept _West Side Story_ in a tie with _Sweeney_. WSS is … oh my. So much awesome. WSS will always have my heart. Kudos to the choice of _1776_. I think it makes a better movie, actually, but it’s definitely the thinking person’s choice for top five. The book is stronger than the music, which is a rarity, I think. _The King and I_ is fabulous and very dear to me. And in a completely personal, nostalgic choice that I can’t really defend on any level except that I grew up rockin’ out to it, I will also pipe up for _Jesus Christ Superstar_. Finally, _Les Mis_ leaves me utterly cold. It’s the same four songs repeated endlessly. But I have to acknowledge the impact it has on other people, so I respect the choice from others. Wouldn’t see it again unless I was paid for the privilege … or unless my boy Drew Sarich went back to play ValJean on Broadway. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/40 "2009-04-16T23:22:40Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > Sorry. But we’ll give it an Honorable Mention as “Greatest Musical Episode of a TV show.” I wanted to see if anyone got the reference. Can’t surprise the people of the SDMB.😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305.md?page=3)