# The greatest musical in the world is... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305 "2009-04-16T17:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/101 "2009-04-19T19:48:17Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > For serious musical, I’ve always been a **Miss Saigon** fan. I’m not sure how it translates on stage, but I love the music and story from **Ragtime.** I really want to see that. Belmont University did a really good production of it a few months ago and posted many of the musical numbers on [YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=belmont+ragtime&aq=f). At risk of blasphemy, the student who plays Coalhouse is on par with Brian Stokes Mitchell ([youtube of BSM and cast at Tony’s in opening number](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_YnXFojCxw)). ---
**Author:** ![echowit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@echowit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echowit)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/102 "2009-04-19T23:18:30Z")
[quote=“Eonwe, post:52, topic:493305”] **1st Tier:** Little Shop of Horrors Glad to see LSoH on your 1st tier. If it’s on I watch. Probably the best use of Greek Chorus of all the musicals mentioned. As to: > [@](#): > > … _West Side Story_. … But, the story, the book and the pacing are very dated. It doesn’t hold up script wise after all these years, IMHO. Got to agree and expand. I was there (the '50s I mean, not the West Side) and the story/script didn’t hold up then, either. I and my peer teens mostly snickered throughout the movie and both God-awful semi-pro stage versions I saw. Maybe if I’d seen a good stage version? ---
**Author:** ![p4poetic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed8c4c/32.png) [@p4poetic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/p4poetic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/103 "2009-04-20T02:01:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > But the OMWF sings WEREN’T generic or iconic. The songs Xena & Gabrielle sing are explicitly about their situation. If you had thrown Hercules & Iolaus into Illusia, those songs would have made no sense. > > And, of course, Xena & Gabrielle are the only “real” characters in Illusia anyway. Callisto, Joxur & Ares are as illusory as the rest of the realm. We don’t get to explore the latter three’s psyches, because Xena was almost more centered, character-wise, than Buffy. Everything is always about the leading ladies, whether their relationship with one another or a comment on one of them individually. > > Which is why I like Xena in general better than Buffy, and “The Bitter Suite” in particular better than “Once More With Feeling.” Toward the end of Buffy, \*\*there was talk of replacing Sarah Michelle Gellar with Eliza Dushku and making it Faith the Vampire Slayer. That was conceviable because Buffy was essentially plot-based. \*\*No such thing was conceviable with Xena, because it was character-based; the fans would never have accepted the show without at least Lawless, and probably both Lawless & O’Connor. As I recall, Whendon wanted to do a spin off, not replace SMG with Dushku. That said, Xena = Lucy Lawless. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > As I compulsively rank songs I save to disc, I decided to check what I recorded for both. > > In OMWF, I gave “What You Feel,” “Standing,” and “Where Do We Go From Here” five stars. In TBS, I gave “What’s Still Unwritten” and “War & Peace” five stars. > > Just out of curiosity: for those of you who like television or movie musicals, are you vexed when songs are dubbed because the actor is not gifted musically? I’ve heard people complain about that re: the Xena musical and praise the Buffy musical for requiring all the regular cast to sing their own parts. > > **I don’t mind dubbing as long as it’s done well. And I think it was a major mistake not to find an singer close enough in range to Aly Hannigan for OMWF and give Willow a song. I mean, she was arguably the second-most important character in the series; her not getting a song of her own was glaring (particuarly when she just looks on wistfully as Tara sings.** > > (Although I can understand just wanting to listen to Amber Benson sing, as she was amazing.) In TBS, Lucy Lawless, Kevin Todd Smith (RIP) and Ted Rami sang themselves, the former two is understandable because they have experience singing, and Raimi’s part was quite short. The beginning part of the musical was quite whimsical, if I remember correctly, and he has an exceptional voice for what it was (Joxer the Mighty, heh). Renee O’Connor had someone else sing, and unfortunately it was horridly obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/104 "2009-04-20T20:27:03Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I have to wonder though - in this day and age marvelous things are being done with production, it might be interesting to just clean up the original voice like they do with pop stars who sound sucky live but fantastic on CD. I think they did that for Sarah Michelle Gellar in OMWF. I’m pretty sure I hear post-processing artifacts in SMG’s voice during “Something to Sing About”. Here’s a sample of her early singing: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHgjqCloFl0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHgjqCloFl0) She says she took singing lessons after that, but I bet she still needed some behind-the-scenes magic. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Wouldn’t they all have to lip sync anyway? Since the singing isn’t usually done while filming, but rather dubbed in (by the actor) afterwards? They usually record the songs in a studio before filming, and the actors lipsync to the finished recordings while on set. \*\*\* Ponder ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/105 "2009-04-20T22:13:56Z")
> [@p4poetic](#): > > As I recall, Whendon wanted to do a spin off, not replace SMG with Dushku. That said, Xena = Lucy Lawless. Seriously, why do you guys keep bothering me with details? > [@](#): > > In TBS, Lucy Lawless, Kevin Todd Smith (RIP) and Ted Rami sang themselves, the former two is understandable because they have experience singing, and Raimi’s part was quite short. The beginning part of the musical was quite whimsical, if I remember correctly, and he has an exceptional voice for what it was (Joxer the Mighty, heh). Moreover, “Joxer the Mighty” was Joxer’s theme song. That was neither the first nor the last time it was used in the series, and it changed each time. I’m especially fond of the bordello version, in which a group of professional ladies explain why they service him for free: [QUOTE=Xena: Warrior Princess] Bordello Girls: Joxer the Mighty, Master of virility. Every woman wants him, He’s so sexy it’s a sin. If you want a special tryst, He’s the man you can’t resist. By every measure he’s a prize. [/QUOTE] It’s canon that Joxer was both well-hung and overall skillful in the sack. I’m fairly sure this was their way of saying "Yeah, we’re not kidding–Gabrielle IS a lesbian.’ ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/106 "2009-04-21T06:42:36Z")
Well you convinced me to give Bitter Suite another try, which I attempted to find a copy of the episode or at least the music, by nefarious means, to no avail. So all I can rely on is my memory and historical artifacts. I do remember TBS being a more satisfying episode dramatically and as a a resolution to the season long arc that transpired before it, so I give you that. I also remember it being somewhat more mythic and operatic, so I’ll give you that. But - I was watching Xena in syndication at the time, so I had seen OMWF before TBS. So impressed by OMWF was I that I was greatly looking forward to the Xena episode. I remember that by OMWF’s standards, I was not at all impressed by the songs in TBS. I do remember really enjoying the story, but I can’t remember a single song. And I didn’t bother to record the episode or make any attempt to procure the music at a later date by any means. Whereas with OMWF I couldn’t get the songs out of my head, and eagerly awaited the CD release, and watched the episode several times with friends as we sang along. I just can’t imagine wanting to sing along to TBS. So that’s the best evidence I have - I still remember all of the OMWF songs, but have no memory of TBS songs other than a vague impression that they failed to make much of an impression. So until I get an opportunity to see/hear TBS again, I’ll have to stick by my assertion, that TBS was better in some respects, may or may not have been better in certain respects that I don’t remember, but the OMWF songs were way better, or at least, way more memorable and enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/107 "2009-04-21T14:55:56Z")
No love for “Oklahoma”. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/108 "2009-04-21T15:04:01Z")
I mentioned ‘Oklahoma’ in post #23. I think it’s the strongest of all the Rogers and Hammerstein musicals. ---
**Author:** ![p4poetic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed8c4c/32.png) [@p4poetic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/p4poetic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/109 "2009-04-25T09:09:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Seriously, why do you guys keep bothering me with details? Sorry 🙂 > [@](#): > > Moreover, “Joxer the Mighty” was Joxer’s theme song. That was neither the first nor the last time it was used in the series, and it changed each time. I’m especially fond of the bordello version, in which a group of professional ladies explain why they service him for free: > > It’s canon that Joxer was both well-hung and overall skillful in the sack. I’m fairly sure this was their way of saying "Yeah, we’re not kidding–Gabrielle IS a lesbian.’ Joxer fan, huh? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/110 "2009-04-25T14:26:48Z")
> [@p4poetic](#): > > Sorry 🙂 > > Joxer fan, huh? 😃 Take that back! Actually Joxur was at best middling, at worst vomitous; it was the multiple iterations of the song that were amusing But I didn’t want to see him with Gabrielle (though I don’t think she and Xena were lovers, just in love.) Since someone else has bumped the thread, I might mention that last night I listened to the mid-90s musical adaptation of The Secret Garden, which is very high on my list of artistic comfort foods – especially “Winter’s on the Wing.” ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/111 "2009-04-25T20:28:48Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I do remember TBS being a more satisfying episode dramatically and as a a resolution to the season long arc that transpired before it, so I give you that. One should watch **Maternal Instinicts** before watching TBS. ---
**Author:** ![maplekiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@maplekiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maplekiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/112 "2009-04-25T21:43:36Z")
I saw Rocky Horror live many years ago - with Tim Curry ( I hope thats the right spelling of his name) My favourite is South Pacific - but that could change if they redo the movie of Camelot with people who can sing! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305/113 "2009-04-26T12:56:18Z")
Nobody has mentioned Phantom of the Opera, which is odd, as it is the longest running show on Broadway and the West End, and the last time I saw it, it was still playing to full houses. Everyone on the planet has seen this show about six times, yet it still fills up the theatre. It must be doing something right, as it has played on six continents and been translated into over ten languages! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-musical-in-the-world-is/493305.md?page=5)