# \*The\* greatest U.S. President **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-u-s-president/348965 "2006-03-19T03:35:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-u-s-president/348965/61 "2006-03-23T13:50:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > TR also engineered the separation of Panama from Colombia – just so the Panama Canal could be built. Whether that was a good or bad thing might depend on who you ask. I would not be surprised if the Colombians are still resentful. The Panamanians are certainly glad they have the canal, their country’s greatest economic asset, but they might resent the U.S. for keeping control of the Canal Zone for so long; and given the shape Colombia is in, they might well be glad to be independent of it. (Not that Panama’s history of self-government has been much better.) But the point is, TR’s action in this matter was extremely arrogant and high-handed. The Hay-Banau Varilla Treaty, allowing the canal to be built, was signed by the French and the Americans – without a Panamanian in the room. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_Panama#American\_seizure\_of\_the\_Canal\_Construction\_Zone](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Panama#American_seizure_of_the_Canal_Construction_Zone) > > TR also enunciated his own corrollary to the Monroe Doctrine, holding the U.S. could intervene in the internal affairs of Carribean states if “corruption” made it necessary. This precedent led to a long and shameful history of U.S. Marines fighting in banana republics to shore up unmistakeably corrupt (but pro-U.S.) dictators. You are blaming him for later Presidents actions. Did TR actually send the Marines in to hold up Corrupt Pro-US Dictators? No he didn’t, he would have sent the Marines in and forced a new protected Democratic Government in charge. Similar to Panama. Yes, I am one of those that would say the building of the Canal and the Panamanian Independence was a good thing. The Canal was a very important action for Navy and Commerce use. Many would say we only gave up control of the Canal because it had ceased to be of Military Importance with the advent of Super Carriers. Did TR practice High Handed Foreign policy, yes. Is there a case where it was done wrongly, maybe, but I am not convinced yet. In addition, and I admit I hate these comparisons, but compared to contemporary World Leaders, Teddy was rather benign in his treatment of lesser states in the sphere of influence. Please look at how Europe was carving up China and South East Asia as a Comparison. Jim ---
**Author:** ![YaWanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@YaWanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaWanna)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-u-s-president/348965/62 "2006-03-23T22:32:47Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Another vote for Teddy Roosevelt. He’s definitely my favorite, although in deference to his personal wishes, I never refer to him as “Teddy” (he hated it). It’s always “Theodore Roosevelt” or “TR.” All due respect to Washington & Lincoln, but I’m voting with my heart as well as my head here. ---
**Author:** ![OliverTwistofLime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b487fb/32.png) [@OliverTwistofLime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverTwistofLime)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-u-s-president/348965/63 "2006-03-24T10:35:41Z")
No president can compete with the brilliance of Tom Jefferson and George Washington in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-u-s-president/348965/64 "2006-03-24T13:54:03Z")
> [@OliverTwistofLime](#): > > No president can compete with the brilliance of Tom Jefferson and George Washington in my opinion. Read a lot more about Jefferson, he is seriously overrated. A slave owner until death and freed very few even in death. He had no control over himself. He spent at will and died with around $100,000 in debt. His family was unable to retain Monticello. The Louisiana purchase fell into his lap and was negotiate by the brilliance that was Monroe. He was a terrible war time governor of Virginia. He used yellow journalism against his political foes, even Adams who he publically considered a friend and mentor. He was a short sighted visionary who believed in the agrarian America over the commercial America of the Hamiltonians. The Embargo Act of 1807 nearly cripple New England Business interest instead of hurting France or English interest. What Jefferson was, was a brilliant and flawed man, but not a great President. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-u-s-president/348965/65 "2006-04-03T16:31:56Z")
Jim, that’s a great and on-the-money recitation of Jefferson’s shortcomings. Joseph Ellis’s _Founding Brothers_ and Ron Chernow’s _Alexander Hamilton_ show the Jefferson behind the marble statue, and it ain’t pretty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatest-u-s-president/348965.md?page=3)