# The greatness of the original Star Wars **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 23, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354 "2015-11-23T14:23:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/41 "2015-11-23T21:49:22Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > When the Millenium Falcon jumped into hyperspace, the entire audience went “OOOOOOHHHHH!!!” and broke into applause. Audiences EVERYWHERE went “OOOOOOHHHHH!!!” and broke into applause! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/42 "2015-11-23T21:54:49Z")
It’s probably impossible for people in 2015, even people who were alive in 1977, to appreciate how innovative the effects and world-building of Star Wars was. Everything looked REAL. Before Star Wars when you saw a science fiction movie, you had to mentally fill in the details with your mind. Yes, they’re obviously in front of a painted backdrop, but let’s suspend our disbelief and go with it. All planets look exactly like Southern California, but suspend. Aliens look like humans with a funny haircuts, but suspend. Costumes are slapped together out of wardrobe, but suspend. You can see the strings holding the spaceships, but suspend. Yes, 2001. But 2001 wasn’t a mainstream movie. Star Wars was the first science fiction movie that everyone saw that you couldn’t see the zippers on the rubber monsters and the strings on the spaceships. It was the first movie (yes, again 2001) where someone went to the trouble of trying to create an immersive production design from top to bottom. And Star Wars really revolutionized Hollywood. Yes, there were blockbusters before Star Wars. But Star Wars did to Hollywood what the Allies did to Germany in WWII. Everyone talks about the Star Wars hype. But the hype didn’t exist until after Star Wars became a phenomenon. It wasn’t something the studios shoved down our throats, because no such thing was possible back in 1977. The movie ecosystem was completely different. Our modern entertainment system is designed around replicating Star Wars over and over and over. Star Wars is remembered because nothing like it existed before 1977. And it still works today. Often the “firsts” aren’t particularly memorable, nobody is going back to “The Jazz Singer” just because it was the first talkie. Of course no one element of Star Wars is truly original. The plot is ripped off. The action sequences are ripped off. The characters are ripped off. The settings are ripped off. The effects were pioneered by 2001. And on and on. But the movie as a whole is bursting with originality. The rip-offs weren’t the cynical frankensteinian rip-offs that we see in lots of movies, Lucas ripped off these elements because he loved them, not out of cynicism. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/43 "2015-11-23T21:58:22Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Audiences EVERYWHERE went “OOOOOOHHHHH!!!” and broke into applause! 🆒 The audience I was in for some other film broke into applause for the _trailer_. Pre-Internet and all, there wasn’t much known about the film beforehand. Once you saw the trailer, you _knew_. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/44 "2015-11-23T22:06:38Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > … > And Star Wars really revolutionized Hollywood. Yes, there were blockbusters before Star Wars. But Star Wars did to Hollywood what the Allies did to Germany in WWII. Everyone talks about the Star Wars hype. But the hype didn’t exist until after Star Wars became a phenomenon. It wasn’t something the studios shoved down our throats, because no such thing was possible back in 1977. The movie ecosystem was completely different. Our modern entertainment system is designed around replicating Star Wars over and over and over. > … I think you should give that credit to _Jaws_. It was the blockbuster every studio wanted to duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/45 "2015-11-23T22:09:19Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > **This guy:** > > [Ralph McQuarrie - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_McQuarrie) Thanks, I see he had nothing to do with the prequels, so my adulation of him can be unsullied. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/46 "2015-11-23T22:13:23Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Once you saw the trailer, you _knew_. Not \*\*this \*\*trailer, I assume: I first saw this at a science fiction convention in 1978. After the opening shots, you couldn't hear any of the dialogue because everyone in the hall was laughing so hard! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/47 "2015-11-23T22:27:32Z")
Note–it was advanced technology…that was **dirty.** Beat-up! Even broken! The only people who had the shiny stuff were evil. It was a new vision, for me. The _Millennium Falcon_…I fell in love at first sight. I still like it better than any other star-ship. I had an appreciation for the “hood-off” look of the Y-Wing & X-Wing, too. And I loved the Cantina. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/48 "2015-11-23T22:39:19Z")
[quote=“terentii, post:46, topic:738354”] Not \*\*this \*\*trailer, I assume: [/QUOTE] This is the original version. Not only is it even cheesier, it has a naked woman in it!\* :o \*Probably NSFW.... :( ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/49 "2015-11-23T22:43:52Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Certainly it does – that’s its attraction. I never said that it _wasn’t_ tthe result of good pulp SF, so I don’t understand why you’re disagreeing with me. I’m not disagreeing with you … not you in particular, anyway; I probably should have quoted somebody else. Several people in this thread have suggested that _Star Wars_ was the first film to show awareness of written SF traditions, and the first SF film to present a completely immersive world. I think _Forbidden Planet_ deserves some credit on both of those points, although it certainly didn’t have the cultural impact or influence of _Star Wars_. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/50 "2015-11-23T22:45:35Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And don’t forget _633 Squadron_ while you’re listing influences. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4OZq-tlJTrU/hqdefault.jpg "Starwars: 633 Squadron Mosquito Deathstar attack") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZq-tlJTrU) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/51 "2015-11-23T22:56:37Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I think you should give that credit to _Jaws_. It was the blockbuster every studio wanted to duplicate. Yes, but while _Star Wars_ is still enjoyable today (aside from Lucas’ unnecessary adornments and revisions), _Jaws_ has aged terribly in the interim. The underwater ‘stalking’ camera scenes are no longer suspenseful; after so many imitations and parodies the tension has lost what edge it had. _Jaws_ was revolutionary for 1975 but is trite today. There are a generation of people who for the most part have never seen the original _Jaws_ because it just isn’t that interesting or surprising of a film. _Star Wars_, on the other hand, is enjoyable on multiple levels; for the “hero’s journey” story line, for the effects (still good today; in many ways more believable than they way even good CGI is used), Harrison Ford’s career-making performance (“Sorry about the mess,”), and the total creation of a novel fictional universe all the more rich for not having everything explained out in depth. It is science fantasy, not comparable to literary science fiction, but the same true and perhaps even moreso for _Star Trek_, which creates science-y innovations like the transporter and warp drive, and then using them in banal and insipid ways without exploring the social and technical consequences of the technology. _Star Wars_ makes no pretense beyond being a rollicking fantasy in the vein of Flash Gordon serials (which is what Lucas originally wanted to make) and creating a rich setting that distracts from the sometimes patchy nature of the plot and clunky dialogue. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/52 "2015-11-23T23:16:16Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > 1. What elements made the originals so good? It was one of the first big budget sci-fi movies since Forbidden Planet. I saw it on the biggest screen in my town at the time and it smacked you in the head right out of the box. > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > 1. Star Wars has a great & unmistakable soundscape. Why? It seems to have used animal screams and metallic sounds a fair amount. In what way? What else made the sound so great? I think what you’re talking about is technique of taking scary sounds and working them into the soundtrack background as a subliminal way to raise emotional levels. > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > 1. The plot structure and main characters of Star Wars owe a lot to Joseph Campbell’s monomyth, down to Darth Vader being both The Father and The Shadow at the same time. How did Star Wars make good use of the monomyth, Campbellian mythology and Jungian psychology? The plot was stupid simple and Lucas knew it. He didn’t take it seriously so it had a campy feel to it. The ships looked like battleships and the whole thing could have been WW-II in space. When the later movies started to take themselves serious it went straight to “DVD for 12 year olds” hell. I don’t think I’ve seen the entire series of them as they just became annoying to watch. But the first one, that was great. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/53 "2015-11-23T23:45:59Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > I think the original film is pap. I enjoyed it in the theater when I was fourteen, but, then again, I was fourteen. How grown men and women remain attached to this silliness is beyond me. Adolescence used to end in one’s twenties. Now it seems to extend into one’s forties and even fifties. Zombies, vampires, spaceships, scary monsters. Good grief. Do you like Lord of the Rings or Dune? They have monsters, spaceships, and lots of fantasy/scifi tropes. Both written 50+ years ago. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/54 "2015-11-24T01:11:59Z")
Sorry, not great. just OK and not past the first film. Very overrated series. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/55 "2015-11-24T02:11:52Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > There were plenty of others, especially if you go farther back. > \*\*The Andromeda Strain > The Day the Earth Stood Still,Forbidden Planet > This Island Earth > Destination Moon > Conquest of Space > Countdown > When Worlds Collide > \*\* > That’s ignoring a lot of not-so obviously SF films ( **Marooned** ) and low-budget flicks. But there was plenty of SF, a lot of it aimed at adults. So up until 1977 (About 50 years of films from Hollywood) we’re talking, what, 11, 12 films were since fiction related? And many of the films on that list opened directly on Drive In screens. Science fiction, much like horror were considered “lowbrow” and were more apt for Drive In audiences. Clearly, SF wasn’t a genre Hollywood cared about **until** the massive success of **Star Wars** > [@CalMeacham](#): > > Pretty easy. They showed up on TV all the time. I was watching all of these on independent TV stations (which were always starved for content), along with reruns of _Outer Limits_, _Star Trek_, and _The Twilight Zone_ throughout the 1960s and 1970s. No. No they didn’t. _The Outer Limits_ & _The Twilight Zone_ first aired in the late 50’s and 60’s. Occasionally you could catch reruns of each (that’s how I got to see them first) and _Star Trek_ from the mid 60’s too was rerun. But we only had **THREE** channels, a couple more if you were lucky and maybe a UHF channel or two. That’s it. Science fiction and fantasy shows were still thought of as a very small niche audience. Even local channels didn’t want to waste their air time with them on reruns. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > I was in the minority at the time and the minority still but I thought Close Encounters of the Third Kind was a better film than Star Wars. They were out the same summer. I enjoyed both, but they were **COMPLETELY** different films. Star Wars was a space fantasy/adventure while Close Encounters was a drama that had elements of science, not science fiction. (Close Encounters had more in common with films like **The Andromeda Strain** ) BTW, I saw Close Encounters twice that year. Once in a conventional theater, the second at a Drive In theater. Seriously, seeing Close Encounters outside on that huge screen like that really puts you in that film! ---
**Author:** ![Gretchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8edcca/32.png) [@Gretchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gretchion)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/56 "2015-11-24T03:05:55Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > I think the original film is pap. I enjoyed it in the theater when I was fourteen, but, then again, I was fourteen. How grown men and women remain attached to this silliness is beyond me. Adolescence used to end in one’s twenties. Now it seems to extend into one’s forties and even fifties. Zombies, vampires, spaceships, scary monsters. Good grief. Or, to look at it another way… People used to become cranky old codgers in their twenties, and now they seek to maintain a youthful spirit, with a live and let live attitude, not insulting others for how they enjoy their entertainment. I’ll get off your lawn now. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/57 "2015-11-24T03:23:25Z")
> [@Gretchion](#): > > Or, to look at it another way… People used to become cranky old codgers in their twenties, and now they seek to maintain a youthful spirit, with a live and let live attitude, not insulting others for how they enjoy their entertainment. I’ll get off your lawn now. Until someone posts that they like say 50s TV or country n western 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/58 "2015-11-24T03:44:36Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > I think the original film is pap. I enjoyed it in the theater when I was fourteen, but, then again, I was fourteen. How grown men and women remain attached to this silliness is beyond me. Adolescence used to end in one’s twenties. Now it seems to extend into one’s forties and even fifties. Zombies, vampires, spaceships, scary monsters. Good grief. It worth noting that the people who were already adults when _Star Wars_ came out were attached to that silliness enough to nominate the movie for Best Picture. It lost to _Annie Hall_, which is famously not at all silly. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/59 "2015-11-24T04:21:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Interesting that the modified version removes even _that_ level of “gray”, as if Lucas thinks modern audiences, even kids the same age as the kids who flocked to the 1977 version, couldn’t handle it. > > Or maybe _he_ just can’t. I think it’s him. I saw it on opening day 1977 as a 4, nearly 5 year old kid and loved it. It was basically like some awesome combination of a western, a pirate movie and a sci-fi movie rolled into one. And even my young self got why Han shot first. (not to dredge that garbage up). But now, with nearly 40 years of perspective and probably a score of viewings (I saw it 6 times in the theater, FWIW), I realize that while it’s still all those things I describe, it’s not nearly so awesome as people make it out to be. It’s not a life-changing story, or _meaningful_ in any way. It’s a really well executed summer popcorn action movie set in outer space. It doesn’t really make you think and nor does it make any real provocative or controversial social points. I kind of think the adulation and fawning over the first 3 films is more due to some kind of nostalgic fanboyism than anything inherent to the films. The reason I say this is because of the vitriol and sense of betrayal that I saw in the late 1990s when the new edition ones were released- minor stuff like Han shooting first, or the way the laser blasts were re-jiggered, or any number of other cosmetic things provoked absurdly passionate diatribes from fans, which leads me to believe that it’s more childhood nostalgia than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354/60 "2015-11-24T05:02:11Z")
> [@Gretchion](#): > > Or, to look at it another way… People used to become cranky old codgers in their twenties, and now they seek to maintain a youthful spirit, with a live and let live attitude, not insulting others for how they enjoy their entertainment. I’ll get off your lawn now. Well it’s hard to compare generations. My parents dressed up to go shopping. Their idea of entertainment would have been cards or bowling. I can’t imagine them playing WoW. Maybe because they lived through it as young adults. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-greatness-of-the-original-star-wars/738354.md?page=4)