# The Grey Havens (Forbidden Lord of the Rings Mafia) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 12, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019 "2010-08-12T04:04:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/1 "2010-08-12T04:04:51Z")
DO NOT READ OR POST THIS THREAD IF YOU ARE ALIVE IN LORD OF THE RINGS MAFIA. Anyway, discuss/speculate here abou the game. Also, let me know if you want to sub or be spoilered. I could use some subs. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/2 "2010-08-12T10:34:51Z")
I would be very happy to be spoilered, please. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/3 "2010-08-12T13:11:24Z")
Did Meeko just insult Chronos’ vote-tracking program? Oh no he didn’t! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/4 "2010-08-12T13:33:02Z")
Mahaloth, I have an urgent question for you on the spoiler board. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/5 "2010-08-12T13:38:27Z")
> [@Lord of the Rings Mafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/160): > > but a lynch of a claimed lesser role seems more save (less chance to be a town power while bit more likely to be a cover role). The last might not be true if the cover roles in Harry Potter were lead characters - I don’t think so but I don’t know HP enough to say that for sure. As I recall, one of the covers was Hermione Granger, which is a pretty important character. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/6 "2010-08-12T14:15:14Z")
Hmmm… As I’ve probably mentioned, I’m a total mafia newb and I’ve read over a couple old games here, as well as followed along during the last HP game. **Mahaloth** , I’d thought about asking to be spoiled so that I could see what was going on from the very beginning - how people were behaving given their roles and such. I thought maybe it’d help me learn more. That said, I’d also like to play, because I might even learn more that way. However, I can really only guarantee participation during the day and some evenings, likely not much on the weekends. So, **Mahaloth** , I’ll leave it up to you: If you need subs, put me on the list. Or, if you’d rather have subs that are more experienced ('cuz I’m a total newb), then could you spoil me, please? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/7 "2010-08-12T14:54:54Z")
Interesting opening play by Pleonast. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/8 "2010-08-12T15:05:06Z")
Snickers, you are on the sub list. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/9 "2010-08-12T17:12:14Z")
Cool. I’ll probably try to stay out of here, then. Try being the operative word - I doubt it’ll hurt my play much should I get into the game either way. I have updated my options, so now I should get notified pretty quickly when I’m PM’d. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/10 "2010-08-12T18:26:05Z")
And this is why the vanilla role PM should always be posted publicly regardless of whether or not scum are given cover roles. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/11 "2010-08-13T15:51:39Z")
I’m surprised no one’s even tried to speculate on the color. For myself, I’m deathly curious what Maha’s done with the One Ring in this game. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/12 "2010-08-13T16:22:56Z")
… and we have our first serious vote and thus, likely, the start of the actual game. My money would be on both Guiri and Ed being Town, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/13 "2010-08-13T17:56:44Z")
> [@Lord of the Rings Mafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/373): > > I don’t know if substantivity is a word. “substance”. YW. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/14 "2010-08-13T18:05:46Z")
And, while I’m monopolizing this thread: prediction: Chronos is Sam Gamgee. He knows who Frodo is (or else, he knows who has the Ring). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/15 "2010-08-13T18:24:39Z")
And, we are basically at 50% the entire post count for Potter mafia, less than 24 hours into Day One. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/16 "2010-08-13T18:29:14Z")
Ed and peeker are in this game. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/17 "2010-08-13T21:08:44Z")
I’m really glad I sat this one out. I don’t deny that there’s a game being played in that thread, but it’s not the one I think of when I think about playing Mafia. Maybe I’m really weird about this or maybe it’s just because I’m not a great analytic (and not even a decent mathematical) thinker, but the idea of generating hashes and handshakes on the chance that the mod provided an inadvertent confirmation mechanism just seems very much like… avoiding the game to me. And if I was playing, I’d have to follow along because you can’t ignore what people are saying, but I’d want to say this in the game thread, which would be counted as gameplay and be subject to gameplay scrutiny. But none of this is gameplay. It’s only different from giving your SDMB password to another player (so they can confirm your PM) in the, let’s say, indirectness of the way in which it subverts the rules. Like, isn’t the content of the PMs being a secret part of the environment we’re accepting as a fun place in which to play a game, rather than an in-game obstacle to be overcome? If I could figure out who was on what team based on something mechanical like that, maybe I’d do it or maybe I wouldn’t, once it came up for discussion – I really don’t enjoy losing – but in neither case would I feel like I was winning by playing the game. It all seems backward to me. We sign up to play a game based on nobody knowing who the mod assigned to which team, and the first thing we do is try to peek at the mod’s little slip of paper where he wrote down who was on what team. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/18 "2010-08-13T22:09:38Z")
I see things much the same way Jimmy. I think it’s probably a non-issue though, I expect the mods have it covered. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/19 "2010-08-13T22:20:03Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I’m really glad I sat this one out. I don’t deny that there’s a game being played in that thread, but it’s not the one I think of when I think about playing Mafia. Maybe I’m really weird about this or maybe it’s just because I’m not a great analytic (and not even a decent mathematical) thinker, but the idea of generating hashes and handshakes on the chance that the mod provided an inadvertent confirmation mechanism just seems very much like… avoiding the game to me. > > And if I was playing, I’d have to follow along because you can’t ignore what people are saying, but I’d want to say this in the game thread, which would be counted as gameplay and be subject to gameplay scrutiny. But none of this is gameplay. It’s only different from giving your SDMB password to another player (so they can confirm your PM) in the, let’s say, indirectness of the way in which it subverts the rules. Like, isn’t the content of the PMs being a secret part of the environment we’re accepting as a fun place in which to play a game, rather than an in-game obstacle to be overcome? If I could figure out who was on what team based on something mechanical like that, maybe I’d do it or maybe I wouldn’t, once it came up for discussion – I really don’t enjoy losing – but in neither case would I feel like I was winning by playing the game. It all seems backward to me. We sign up to play a game based on nobody knowing who the mod assigned to which team, and the first thing we do is try to peek at the mod’s little slip of paper where he wrote down who was on what team. Yeah, all of this. But I think a lot of players look at Mafia as more of a puzzle to be solved than as a game to play, which is what leads to what we’re seeing so far. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/20 "2010-08-13T22:39:28Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I see things much the same way Jimmy. I think it’s probably a non-issue though, I expect the mods have it covered. Even if they do, I think posting the Vanilla PM as a rule is still a good idea simply to avoid 200 posts about handshaking. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019.md?page=2)