# The Grey Havens (Forbidden Lord of the Rings Mafia) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 12, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019 "2010-08-12T04:04:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/61 "2010-08-21T17:32:22Z")
So, while I’m waiting to be spoiled… > [@Mahaloth](#): > > > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > > > Handshaking is also somewhat against the spirit of the game. It’s an attempt to outwit the mod, rather than the other team. A game where a group of townies managed to handshake successfully would probably need to be abandoned. > > And, furthermore, some of these players must remember LOST(only 14 months ago), where I messed up early on and a handshake almost happened. Instead of abandoning the game, I did a “patch” fix on it that was a bit lame, but sufficed to save it. It was humbling, to say the least. > > Embarrassment is a great teacher. 🙂 Yeah. That’s why I got so suspicious of Ed towards the end. After Lost, I couldn’t imagine that you would allow a handshake to succeed - I went to “Sauron and his minions” largely to give power roles some cover since Ed seemed so determined to keep us on handshaking - and after awhile I began to think that Ed really should have come to the same conclusion. Toss in the fairly blatantly incompetent inclusion of the powers section…he’s either a terrible townie or scum. > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Even for **peeker** that F5 F5 F5 F5 stuff was a jarringly weird way to behave. Does he really think anybody else would have made him a prohibitive favorite to get nightkilled? I was really getting annoyed at Peeker and Ed for filling the thread with spam. If I were a third party, I might have killed him even though that would be against my usual doctrine. Edit: Oh, I really wanted to kick Gadarene for saying he trusted me. It’s like “Hey, scum. Here is a persuasive player who no one thinks is evil. Just in case you missed him!” I suppose my top suspicions going into today were Ed and him, though I did have that growing list of “I really need to reread.” Astral first among those. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/62 "2010-08-21T18:25:53Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > I was really getting annoyed at Peeker and Ed for filling the thread with spam. If I were a third party, I might have killed him even though that would be against my usual doctrine. Point taken, but **peeker** can’t be talking about that as the reason for his “nerves.” He wouldn’t acknowledge the possibility that he’d get serial-killed for making the game worse. Clearly he’s saying that he’s such a threat that he was petrified that he was going to get nightkilled. I just wonder why on earth he’d say that aloud - if he’s town he’s just being ridiculously self-congratulatory and, frankly, wrong in a way that’s going to look suspicious, and if he’s not town he’s making a terrible show of it on account of how wrong what he’s saying is. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/63 "2010-08-24T00:32:26Z")
I didn’t ask to be spoiled because I wanted to have the fun of ‘playing along’, so I have this question for anyone reading this thread. Do you have any idea what the hell \*\*ed \*\*and \*\*peeker \*\*(and apparently now **Gadarene** ) are going on about? I was mostly convinced peeker was just making shit up until Gadarene chimed in as well… I think I’m glad I was killed so soon…because it feels like there’s at least three different games being played here, and I was having enough trouble keepin up with just one… ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/64 "2010-08-24T14:47:22Z")
> [@Lord of the Rings Mafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/1537): > > **Gadarene** , not bussing you, just pointing out that you pointed it out a lot. Rather like pointing out that Pleonast’s been pointing out how much he dislikes Mahaloth’s vote rules quite a bit. Just a statement. I don’t like this post by Snickers, and I’m surprised no one else looked at it funny. Why would Snickers explicitly state that he is not bussing Gadarene? Only scum would bus someone else. It’s a terrible phrasing. If he is scum, he pretty much explicitly states so right there. Not only that, but that Gadarene is scum too. If he is Town, then he clearly doesn’t know the definition of “bussing.” ---
**Author:** ![Silmandil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Silmandil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silmandil)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/65 "2010-08-24T17:07:20Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > \ > If he is Town, then he clearly doesn’t know the definition of “bussing.” My money is on that option. She’s new and is probably not quite up to snuff on the jargon. > [@Snickers](#): > > Hmmm… As I’ve probably mentioned, I’m a total mafia newb and I’ve read over a couple old games here, as well as followed along during the last HP game. > > \ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/66 "2010-08-24T22:52:34Z")
Anybody want in the game? I may have one more opportunity to jump in. PM me if you want in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/67 "2010-08-28T16:47:09Z")
So, yeah. My death was entirely my fault. It was pretty fun when I realized that defending myself could only muddle things up for my team; I had to flip as soon as possible so I wouldn’t be a distraction anymore. Oh, well! No spoilers for me, I want to see how this plays out. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/68 "2010-08-30T16:28:36Z")
All this talk about Ed’s attempt to handshake is making me see red. I’m going to go on record here as an impartial observer who doesn’t know the alignments of any of the players (I know the set-up but not the role distribution) that Ed’s play was a good play (I am also unaware of the contents of any and all messages sent to the players). It’s not his fault that a bunch of Town Power Roles decided to out themselves in the process. If you hold a Town Power role and someone attempts a Vanilla Town handshake, you STFU! You are not vanilla! Ed is not addressing you! If anything, Ed messed up by trying to confirm ALL vanillas instead of a small subset. But the attempt itself was a good move. I can’t fathom how these people can point to Ed as the reason why so many Town Power roles have outed themselves. He didn’t make them post what they did. The mistake is entirely on them. Furthermore, I don’t even think Gadarene was killed because scum thought she’s a powerrole, I think they killed her because she picked apart Suburban Plankton’s fake claim with precision. Anyway, Ed, when you get around to reading this post; I think you did a good move there. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/69 "2010-08-30T18:17:01Z")
**Mod Note:** Received a note to delete this post, but as that’s not policy, the post below has been spoilered as inappropriate for the thread. It should have been made in the spoiler thread. Please do not read it. Gukumatz, Game Room Moderator [Spoiler] Man, I feel like an idiot. Not just for outing myself via the handshake – although I’m still not sure exactly what it was that gave it away, since I didn’t feel like I responded to anything that couldn’t have been natural variation in a vanilla’s color text (e.g., the number of times Sauron is mentioned) – but because I had a bunch of different powers, each of which I could only use once or twice. Among my two-time powers was the ability to self-protect, which I used the first Night b/c I was worried about the whole **Suburban Plankton** thing.\* I didn’t self-protect again on Night Two because I wanted to (a) save my ability to do that for a future Night when the numbers were smaller; and (b) help Town by using one of my other powers. So I self-protected when (apparently) nobody targeted me, and then opted not to self-protect the next night, at which point I immediately died. \*Had we not lynched **Suburban Plankton** on Day One, I would’ve used a different power the first Night – one involving a little birdie – and things would’ve gotten really interesting. Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut about **Suburban**. (By the way, **Mahaloth** , as far as I know I still haven’t received my approval for the spoiler board. I’ve registered and everything, but it won’t let me in – am I missing something?) [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/70 "2010-08-30T18:59:00Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Among my two-time powers was the ability to self-protect, which I used the first Night b/c I was worried about the whole **Suburban Plankton** thing.\* This type of stuff should go in the spoiler board. Not here. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/71 "2010-08-30T19:04:51Z")
My fault. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/72 "2010-09-02T21:59:46Z")
well, that’s not a surprise. Spoiler me, please ---
**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2010, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/73 "2010-09-04T07:28:21Z")
I’m sorry I helped get you killed, Ed. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/74 "2010-09-05T02:42:35Z")
> [@Chipacabra](#): > > I’m sorry I helped get you killed, Ed. ☹ Likewise ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/75 "2010-09-06T03:04:01Z")
Not a very good batting average for town (only 1 scum kill out of 6 now). Is this normal? What typically gets a townie killed? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/76 "2010-09-06T03:14:54Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Not a very good batting average for town (only 1 scum kill out of 6 now). Is this normal? What typically gets a townie killed? It’s 1 out of 3 in terms of lynches. In general, Scum gets a kill each Night. Sometimes there are Town or other kills as well. 1 out of 3 is pretty typical in the early stages. As the game progresses and more information is learned, Town generally gets better at finding Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/77 "2010-09-09T19:50:00Z")
I’ll be shocked if **peeker** is not scum. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/78 "2010-09-11T17:01:29Z")
> [@Lord of the Rings Mafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2407): > > OK, we _really_ need to hear from the surprisingly-not-dead **Nanook** now. > > Meanwhile, though: **Natlaw** was a watcher, not a full investigator. I consider it unlikely that the Scum would have had both a watcher and a normal investigator, and yet he knew (as confirmed by **Astral** ) what **Astral** was. This implies that **Astral** is Scum. > > **Vote Astral** > > Also note that **Astral** recommended yesterDay that **Nanook** investigate him: This is certainly consistent with the assumption that **Natlaw** ’s claim was an attempt to save a valuable Scum, since Godfathers benefit greatly from being investigated. Why couldn’t natlaw have gotten the astral info from another scum? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/79 "2010-09-21T16:27:45Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’ll be shocked if **peeker** is not scum. old sparky is ready for you. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019/80 "2010-09-21T16:34:19Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’ll be shocked if **peeker** is not scum. I’m curious why you thought this. You PM’ed me, but share your thoughts here now that peek is outed as town. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-grey-havens-forbidden-lord-of-the-rings-mafia/550019.md?page=5)