# The "Ground Zero Mosque" Can be built, but should it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496 "2010-11-22T00:52:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/21 "2010-11-22T06:23:29Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’d actually love to see a mosque incorporated into a non-denomination, multi-use prayer space in whatever finally ends up replacing the WTC’s (they haven’t built anything yet, have they? Yes, stuff has been built there. The reflecting pool and memorial is complete, I think. The new One World Trade Center is probably around 40 stories tall by now, and the subway station is being worked on. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Whatever the Cordoba House may actually be, the one thing I don’t see how it could be is a “community center.” The whole concept of a community center seems to me like it should necessarily be a non-religious place, at least in a city that doesn’t have one official religion. Shouldn’t a “community center” be a place for the whole community to come, regardless of their religion? You’ve heard of YMCAs and such, haven’t you? It’s the same idea. It sounds like they are no longer saying it will include a mosque specifically. They’re saying it will have a “prayer space” instead, although obviously a lot of Muslims are going to use it. I think there was always going to be a nondenominational prayer space as well. The rest of the facility is going to have basketball courts and a library and other things that don’t have any religious component. ---
**Author:** ![Alienhand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Alienhand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alienhand)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/22 "2010-11-22T07:39:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, stuff has been built there. The reflecting pool and memorial is complete, I think. The new One World Trade Center is probably around 40 stories tall by now, and the subway station is being worked on. Just to add a bit, [here’s](http://www.rebuildgroundzero.org/rgzv2/) a web cam (you’ll need daylight) and photo galleries up to September [or here](http://www.earthcam.com/usa/newyork/groundzero/?cam=milleniumhilton1#) for more cams and some time-lapses. Google Earth’s 3d model is mostly up to date as well. ---
**Author:** ![smileybastard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@smileybastard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smileybastard)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/23 "2010-11-22T11:56:53Z")
It is not quite on ground zero and they own the land. Of course they and do have the right to build it. What possible reason would be to stop them? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/24 "2010-11-22T12:07:43Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Already did WHAT to Ground Zero? The proposed site accidentally a whole Ground Zero. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/25 "2010-11-22T12:43:57Z")
If you think you get to ask whether other people “should” be allowed to exercise their constitutional freedoms and that this is some kind of public debate everybody gets to weigh in on, you don’t really grasp constitutional freedoms. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/26 "2010-11-22T13:55:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, stuff has been built there. The reflecting pool and memorial is complete, I think. The new One World Trade Center is probably around 40 stories tall by now, and the subway station is being worked on. I’m pretty sure I saw water running into the memorial, just like it will be running when everything is all built. I don’t know if that’s just a test, or if they are planning on keeping it going, but, yes, lots of progress has been made. > [@](#): > > …The rest of the facility is going to have basketball courts and a library and other things that don’t have any religious component. Basketball courts!!! How dare they! Obviously, the terrorists have won. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/27 "2010-11-22T15:01:57Z")
One problem that I think many people have here is a lack of familiarity with New York. “Two blocks! Why, it’s practically on top of Ground Zero!” New York, especially below 20th Street, has some tiny neighborhoods, and two blocks can indeed be a remarkably distinct dividing line. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/28 "2010-11-22T15:39:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The proposed site _already_ several blocks away from Ground Zero. And it isn’t a mosque, either. > > So what else ya got? To which I’d add that we’re talking about building in _lower Manhattan_ - how many blocks do you think the place has, exactly? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/29 "2010-11-22T15:43:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > One problem that I think many people have here is a lack of familiarity with New York. “Two blocks! Why, it’s practically on top of Ground Zero!” > > New York, especially below 20th Street, has some tiny neighborhoods, and two blocks can indeed be a remarkably distinct dividing line. Amen, especially with regard to Manhattan proper. I was amused to realize, when I was vacationing there last summer, that it was entirely practical to walk from my Upper West Side hostel to Columbus Circle (just south of Central Park). Took a bit less than an hour at a leisurely pace. And this is considered a _serious_ distance on Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/30 "2010-11-22T15:43:50Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m pretty sure I saw water running into the memorial, just like it will be running when everything is all built. I don’t know if that’s just a test, or if they are planning on keeping it going, but, yes, lots of progress has been made. [That’s part of the design.](http://www.wtcsitememorial.org/fin7.html) > [@](#): > > It is located in a field of trees that is interrupted by two large voids containing recessed pools. The pools and the ramps that surround them encompass the footprints of the twin towers. A cascade of water that describes the perimeter of each square feeds the pools with a continuous stream. They are large voids, open and visible reminders of the absence. > [@](#): > > Basketball courts!!! How dare they! Obviously, the terrorists have won. We should have known this was coming when they sent that sleeper agent Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/31 "2010-11-22T16:06:54Z")
[quote=“Marley23, post:30, topic:561496”] [That’s part of the design.](http://www.wtcsitememorial.org/fin7.html) Oh, I knew that, I was just surprised to see it in operation. I guess I could have been clearer. Anyway, yes, much progress made. I’m looking forward to the underpass from the PATH station to the WFC, although I’m sure that 3 or 4 years away. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/32 "2010-11-22T16:10:53Z")
**FinnAgain** summed up my position rather nicely. They have every right to build a community center there or anywhere else they have property and planning permission. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/33 "2010-11-22T16:36:15Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Whatever the Cordoba House may actually be, the one thing I don’t see how it could be is a “community center.” The whole concept of a community center seems to me like it should necessarily be a non-religious place, at least in a city that doesn’t have one official religion. Shouldn’t a “community center” be a place for the whole community to come, regardless of their religion? the [92 St. Y](http://www.92y.org/shop/category.asp?category=888Programs888&92Y_drop=byprograms_tab), one of NYC’s preeminent community centers, also has a very famous center for [Jewish religious life](http://www.92y.org/shop/category.asp?category=888Jewish+Life888&92Y_drop=int-jewish), including religious services. So? Why do you assume that means that somehow the community is excluded from using the pool or learning Spanish or seeing a play? I know this may be surprising to you, but there is no “prove you’re a jew” requirement when you cross the threshold of the 92Y. It’s for everyone, and everyone makes use of it. When I was but a wee Jewish kid, I played baseball in a little league sponsored by a Catholic Church. I also went to a YMCA sleepaway camp. Somehow, I survived those experiences without being forcibly converted to christianity. I hope they build it; I work in the area and we can use reasonably priced gym. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/34 "2010-11-22T18:33:41Z")
If you tar all Muslims with the same brush as Al Quida then you will eventually turn ALL of them into enemies. America was founded on religious tolerance, banning the mosque would make you as bad as the extreme Islamists. The mosque should be built. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/35 "2010-11-23T18:09:46Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > If you think you get to ask whether other people “should” be allowed to exercise their constitutional freedoms and that this is some kind of public debate everybody gets to weigh in on, you don’t really grasp constitutional freedoms. This. Kind of mind-blowing how many people Don’t Get It. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/36 "2010-11-23T19:50:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The rest of the facility is going to have basketball courts and a library and other things . . . I bet that library will even have a copy of the Qur’an in it! And only \*two blocks \*away from Ground Zero! How dare they! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/37 "2010-11-23T20:01:36Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > If you think you get to ask whether other people “should” be allowed to exercise their constitutional freedoms and that this is some kind of public debate everybody gets to weigh in on, you don’t really grasp constitutional freedoms. The OP wasn’t asking if the Muslims should be _allowed_ to build the Community Center, he/she was accepting that they are allowed to do so, and asking that given that, should they do it. Certainly we can agree that just because somethings constitutional doesn’t mean its a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/38 "2010-11-23T20:04:29Z")
I have yet to hear a legitimate reason why it’s a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![MinkyBinks735](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@MinkyBinks735](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinkyBinks735)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/39 "2010-11-23T22:17:05Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The OP wasn’t asking if the Muslims should be _allowed_ to build the Community Center, he/she was accepting that they are allowed to do so, and asking that given that, should they do it. > Certainly we can agree that just because somethings constitutional doesn’t mean its a good idea. That is exactly what I was saying. They CAN build there, but SHOULD they? Our society has often combined those two. The majority of the time, people think that since they CAN do something, they SHOULD. My personal stand point is that they should still build the mosque, but perhaps bump it back a few blocks farther away. This would then allow it to be built, and hopefully shut the people that are extremely against this up. However, I think that it is a community decision since the people in the general area are the most effected. Let them decide. Make the citizens within that area vote for it. If it is built, some people will find it offensive considering that a few times in the past, mosques have been built on “sites of defeat.” I am not saying that this is one of those situations, but some people feel that way. If the mosque is completely denied by the government and local officials, well that would piss people off because it is against our Constitutional rights. Either way it goes, there are going to be people pissed off. So I say find a middle ground and go from there. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/40 "2010-11-23T22:19:55Z")
> [@MinkyBinks735](#): > > That is exactly what I was saying. They CAN build there, but SHOULD they? Our society has often combined those two. The majority of the time, people think that since they CAN do something, they SHOULD. My personal stand point is that they should still build the mosque, but perhaps bump it back a few blocks farther away. 1. exactly how many blocks away? 2. Who should pay for the move? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496.md?page=3)