# The "Ground Zero Mosque" Can be built, but should it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496 "2010-11-22T00:52:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/81 "2010-12-06T16:03:36Z")
Isn’t this like way-y-y-y over. It’s so pre-election. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/82 "2010-12-06T16:17:00Z")
> [@villa](#): > > My gut reaction is 100% that the community center should be built. But I also have a deep seated feeling that the Carmelite convent at Auschwitz should not have been built. I don’t know how I distinguish the two, apart from possibly a sense of Papal complicity in the Holocaust itself, whether directly at the time, or because of the Vatican’s involvement in the athmosphere of hatred for Judaism that made eliminationist anti-semitism possible. Perhaps it’s that the Auschwitz camp had only one purpose, and lower Manhattan doesn’t. The WTC was an architectural landmark and a major financial businessplace before it was destroyed. I don’t know how far the Auschwitz death camp is from anything else in the area, but that’s one consideration. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/83 "2010-12-06T16:33:49Z")
> [@villa](#): > > So help me out here - what is the difference? The convent was placed in a building that was acdtually on the grounds of the camp, (it had been used as a warehouse to store gas). In addition, when the nuns had originally moved in, there was not much of a reaction, anywhere, but about a year later, some Catholic lay group tied a visit by the pope to a different European country with a fund raising campaign that focused on the convent. When some Jewish leaders expressed displeasure, particularly since Auschwitz is often considered the epitome of the death camps in recent history, a number of Poles decided that they were going to make an issue of it by insulting the Jews, erecting numerous crosses on the land, and declaring that Auschwitz had been the site of the murder of Poles, not so much Jews. Whatever might have happened with the initial convent if there had been no publicity, the resulting furor, (accompanied by the blatant anti-semitism among some of the Poles), made the issue a much more serious one. While letting a few Catholic sisters live in a former warehouse at the edge of the property, (similar to several other convent/camp associations that were established with no protest), might have been either acceptable or an unfortunate choice, defending their presence with lies about the number of Catholic Poles who had perished and minimizing the Jewish losses was a rather nasty reaction. The Nazis did execute a number of Catholic Poles in Auschwitz, including Saint Maximilian Kolbe, but the reaction of some anti-semites, including Archbishop Glemp, (similar to the reactions of people like Glenn Beck who was willing to lie about the community center to pump up his own ratings), pushed the discussion into the realm of offensive insult. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/84 "2010-12-06T16:57:21Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > However to ban the Mosque is of the same flavor of extremism and evil as Sharia law enforcement. … I have no dog in this particular fight, but I can’t help but notice that a lot of you folks are saying that we shouldn’t ban this building. Methinks that you’re all missing the point. As has been pointed out a few times now, nobody’s saying that it should be banned. Certainly not the OP. Heck, the very title of this threat admits that. It says, “The ‘Ground Zero Mosque’ **can** be built, but should it?” (Emphasis added.) So please, can we put a halt to all these rebuttals that say we shouldn’t ban its construction? Nobody here is saying that we should. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/85 "2010-12-06T17:02:05Z")
Well, then the OP has been answered. If there’s no valid reasons why it shouldn’t be built and some valid reasons why it should, then it should. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/86 "2010-12-06T17:11:15Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I have no dog in this particular fight, but I can’t help but notice that a lot of you folks are saying that we shouldn’t ban this building. Methinks that you’re all missing the point. > > As has been pointed out a few times now, nobody’s saying that it should be banned. Certainly not the OP. Heck, the very title of this threat admits that. It says, “The ‘Ground Zero Mosque’ **can** be built, but should it?” (Emphasis added.) > > So please, can we put a halt to all these rebuttals that say we shouldn’t ban its construction? Nobody here is saying that we should. Sure. While we’re at it, can we stop using the term “Ground Zero Mosque”? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/87 "2010-12-06T19:31:37Z")
> [@MinkyBinks735](#): > > If this mosque lasts, and people keep protesting. I sure hope nobody gets pissed off at the protesters. Because they can express themselves because “they didn’t have a say” so this is their way of expressing…and expressing freedom of speech. If the building gets built (as I hope it will), and people protest (in a legal and peaceful fashion), I will continue to get pissed off at them. What I will _not_ do is attempt to deny them their right to protest. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/88 "2010-12-06T20:09:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sure. While we’re at it, can we stop using the term “Ground Zero Mosque”? I’d be okay with that. That’s why I avoided using that term, except insofar as I quoted the title of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/89 "2010-12-07T21:52:00Z")
Except it _is_ a ground zero mosque. The building was condemned [because of damage from debris from one of the 9/11 airplanes](http://politicsandrandomness.blogspot.com/search/label/Ground%20Zero%20Mosque). As a community center with worship, it’s essentially a mosque. The organizers have ties to (and sympathies with) terrorism. The name itself is representative of victory of Muslims over other cultures. Given the trend of [jihadi tourism](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/13/world/europe/13germany.html), I don’t think we need to put a jihadi memorial next to the 9/11 memorial. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/90 "2010-12-07T21:55:32Z")
Translation: “I have the attention span of a newt and read only the first and last posts of this thread.” ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/91 "2010-12-07T23:31:17Z")
I don’t know how you managed that “translation” – I read all the posts. Would you like to respond, or do you just want to hurl insults? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/92 "2010-12-07T23:35:30Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > I don’t know how you managed that “translation” – I read all the posts. Were they posts in _this_ thread? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/93 "2010-12-07T23:35:58Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > The name itself is representative of victory of Muslims over other cultures. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/94 "2010-12-07T23:55:05Z")
Monty, do you know the history of Cordoba? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/95 "2010-12-08T00:12:24Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Monty, do you know the history of Cordoba? You certainly don’t. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/96 "2010-12-08T00:13:32Z")
Then edumacate me. I know what I think the Mosque of Cordoba is. I’d be happy to be proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/97 "2010-12-08T00:27:47Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Then edumacate me. I know what I think the Mosque of Cordoba is. I’d be happy to be proven wrong. I’d love to edumacate you, it’s been a while since I’ve indulged in such vices. On the other hand, you could just link to the nearest wiki page detailing both the Cordoba Mosque and most especially Muslim Andalucia and learn why an organization supposedly dedicated to building bridges being monotheisms would chose a name refering to that era (like being one of the most tolerant episodes, given the times, of interreligion cooperation). ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/98 "2010-12-08T00:50:42Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > As a community center with worship, it’s essentially a mosque. Ohare Airport has a chapel where travelers can worship, that doesn’t mean it’s a church. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/99 "2010-12-08T00:58:04Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > I don’t know how you managed that “translation” – I read all the posts. Would you like to respond, or do you just want to hurl insults? You pretty much covered that area with your previous post. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496/100 "2010-12-08T01:54:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Translation: “I have the attention span of a newt and read only the first and last posts of this thread.” Despite provocation, we will refrain from insulting other posters in this forum. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ground-zero-mosque-can-be-built-but-should-it/561496.md?page=6)