# The Guardian nails it: Childless at 52: How sweet it would be to be called Dad **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 13, 2016, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658 "2016-08-13T08:34:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/21 "2016-08-13T23:27:11Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Lots of people have no frame of reference for ‘normal’ because what you grew up with feels normal. Yeah, I think that was the point addressed to **ZPGZ**. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/22 "2016-08-13T23:46:47Z")
Not that this is a big sample size but taking this thread alone makes parents look like assholes compared to the childless. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/23 "2016-08-13T23:49:25Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > There’s precisely no guarantees over any of your points. But as **Manda JO** points out it is a wholly transformative experience for the most of us who do decide to have kids. And, for plenty of them: for the better. Of course, there will be lots of exceptions and no one’s perfect. > > I was mostly responding to **ZPG’s** hyperbole. It was certainly hyperbole because of course parents are no better or worse compared to a random population sample as human beings, but be careful not to overstate your case. You had a great childhood, you are a great parent, those things shape your view of what parents are just as much as **ZPG Zealot** ’s. It absolutely can be transformative, for better or for worse. My mother had parenthood forced upon her at the age of 19, and she resented the hell out of me for it. That woman was not meant to be a parent. I had plenty of other friends with shit parents, many of whom actually chose to become parents; it’s just not really helpful to generalize either way. Then there’s people like me, who are super fucking excited to be parents and keep meeting hurdles everywhere we look to realize our goals. And everybody tells us, ‘‘You’d be such great parents’’ _because we’re already emotionally complete_ and, we’re just sitting here, like, no shit. Any time now. ETA: And yes, **pool** , I did get a kitten to fill the void, because conservatively speaking it’s probably going to take another 2-3 years to save the required money and complete the adoption process. No, it’s not the same. But for many people that’s all they want and require and it doesn’t make them ‘‘less than.’’ My Aunt lives vicariously through her dogs and has no desire to have children because she effectively already raised one (me.) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/24 "2016-08-13T23:54:10Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I do think that it’s fair to say that becoming a parent is a transformative experience. It’s not the ONLY transformative experience, and it’s not always a positive transformation, but saying becoming a parent has no fundamental effect is as wrong headed as saying it’s the only way to become emotionally complete. > > Like many transformative experiences–travel, college, falling in love-it’s hard not to make the leap from “essential component of who I am” to “essential component of who anyone is”. Because once you’ve transformed, you literally can’t imagine yourself not having done that. As an aside, how do you manage to be so consistently reasonable, thoughtful, and insightful in every thread you participate in? ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/25 "2016-08-14T00:04:53Z")
> [@](#): > > if anything, some people choose not to be parents because they are emotionally mature enough to know they wouldn’t be good at it. It is the people who never question the beliefs of the society they were born in, never reflect, etc. who just have kids too young w/o thinking about it who usually end up as terrible parents. I know some people who deeply regret becoming parents. One was sort of pressured by his wife into having kids, and he abandoned them after telling quite a few people they had totally ruined his life. One, a woman, a good friend, told me she had two kids while young “because that is what you do” without thinking much about it, and she has several times told me that if she could drop them off at a shelter somewhere she would. I doubt she is a good parent. Both kids are poorly behaved and she pays little attention to them, not to the point where I’m calling the cops, but it’s not good. Having children does not “complete” your life nor does it affect your emotions or maturity in any way. An astonishing number of children are born simply because of birth control failures, which suggests many of the parents out there are parents solely because they aren’t very careful. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/26 "2016-08-14T00:10:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It was certainly hyperbole because of course parents are no better or worse compared to a random population sample as human beings, but be careful not to overstate your case. You had a great childhood, you are a great parent, those things shape your view of what parents are just as much as **ZPG Zealot** ’s. > > It absolutely can be transformative, for better or for worse. My mother had parenthood forced upon her at the age of 19, and she resented the hell out of me for it. That woman was not meant to be a parent. I had plenty of other friends with shit parents, many of whom actually chose to become parents; it’s just not really helpful to generalize either way. > > Then there’s people like me, who are super fucking excited to be parents and keep meeting hurdles everywhere we look to realize our goals. And everybody tells us, ‘‘You’d be such great parents’’ _because we’re already emotionally complete_ and, we’re just sitting here, like, no shit. Any time now. > > ETA: And yes, **pool** , I did get a kitten to fill the void, because conservatively speaking it’s probably going to take another 2-3 years to save the required money and complete the adoption process. No, it’s not the same. But for many people that’s all they want and require and it doesn’t make them ‘‘less than.’’ My Aunt lives vicariously through her dogs and has no desire to have children because she effectively already raised one (me.) Agreed. And I know you had a rough upbringing. At that, I really hope you will be a mother someday soon. I know you’ll be great at it, with a very happy child to boot. But **ZPG** is throwing the baby out with the bathwater… so to speak. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/27 "2016-08-14T00:26:58Z")
I missed by edit window, but that is to say, from a very young age, I knew I really wanted to have kids. And I did. I did not set out to be a complete sadist like **ZPG** asserts. And I don’t believe my children (one now an adult and one still an adolescent) would peg me as one. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/28 "2016-08-14T01:30:58Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Not that this is a big sample size but taking this thread alone makes parents look like assholes compared to the childless. Put me on the list of guys with bad parents. My paw slugged me, quite a lot. Physical violence is a shit-poor form of fatherhood. I knew, with absolute certainty, from the time I was nine, that, were I to become a father, I would also be an abuser. The lessons had been engraved into my flesh. So…I chose not. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/29 "2016-08-14T01:44:49Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Like many transformative experiences–travel, college, falling in love-it’s hard not to make the leap from “essential component of who I am” to “essential component of who anyone is”. Because once you’ve transformed, you literally can’t imagine yourself not having done that. Those aren’t the same as having a child. Travel is great, but you’re still you (because no matter where you go, there you are!). Similarly, college gives you a lot of great experiences and falling in love and losing your virginity also feel awesome and are important milestones. But they don’t really compare to having a child. And I don’t mean it in a “children are nature’s miracle” bullshit kind of way like it’s all super awesome. Because it’s not. But having a child transforms you in a way those other things don’t in that you are now responsible for another person, pretty much forever (or at least 18 years). That is now the irrevocable lens that you have to view the world and every aspect of your life with. You can always travel, go to college, fall in love, and go right back to however you were before without really affecting anyone. But if you think you can do that once you have a child, well, just ask **ZPG Zealot**. > [@spamforbrains](#): > > Having children does not “complete” your life nor does it affect your emotions or maturity in any way. An astonishing number of children are born simply because of birth control failures, which suggests many of the parents out there are parents solely because they aren’t very careful. No. But if you choose to have the child, you either do your damn best to be a good father or you resign yourself to the fact that you can no longer pretend to not be a piece of shit. > [@Llama Llogophile](#): > > I’m roughly the same age, never married, no children and I have no such feelings. Rather, I count my lucky stars every day that I never got saddled with kids. I would likely have been a terrible father, and have learned that I love my freedom and solitude. Now, I wouldn’t tell anyone to live the way I do, and while I don’t object to the author sharing his feelings and perspective, some of what he says is just not true. You might be surprised (if you were to have a child). One of the things that terrified me about having kids was the fact that I do like my freedom and solitude. But now that I have one, it’s hard not to be fascinated and excited by all the stupid funny little things they do because everything is new to them. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/30 "2016-08-14T01:50:50Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Put me on the list of guys with bad parents. My paw slugged me, quite a lot. Physical violence is a shit-poor form of fatherhood. > > I knew, with absolute certainty, from the time I was nine, that, were I to become a father, I would also be an abuser. The lessons had been engraved into my flesh. So…I chose not. I don’t mean to demean or belittle what you’re saying here. But do you know _yourself_ to be a violent person? If you don’t or haven’t abused any other loved ones in your life, what makes you think you’d abuse any children you might have? ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/31 "2016-08-14T02:09:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Those aren’t the same as having a child. Travel is great, but you’re still you (because no matter where you go, there you are!). Similarly, college gives you a lot of great experiences and falling in love and losing your virginity also feel awesome and are important milestones. But they don’t really compare to having a child. > > And I don’t mean it in a “children are nature’s miracle” bullshit kind of way like it’s all super awesome. Because it’s not. But having a child transforms you in a way those other things don’t in that you are now responsible for another person, pretty much forever (or at least 18 years). That is now the irrevocable lens that you have to view the world and every aspect of your life with. You can always travel, go to college, fall in love, and go right back to however you were before without really affecting anyone. But if you think you can do that once you have a child, well, just ask ZPG Zealot. Sorry, but that makes me feel like puking. People who go around claiming that “having a child is so different” are so out of touch with reality. It doesn’t change people. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/32 "2016-08-14T02:19:43Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > Sorry, but that makes me feel like puking. People who go around claiming that “having a child is so different” are so out of touch with reality. It doesn’t change people. Do you have kids? I honestly, and without exaggeration, would give my life 100x over for my kids. Not sure I could say the same for my dog, or a trip to Venice. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/33 "2016-08-14T02:29:55Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I don’t mean to demean or belittle what you’re saying here. But do you know _yourself_ to be a violent person? If you don’t or haven’t abused any other loved ones in your life, what makes you think you’d abuse any children you might have? Alas, I have evidence of anger and violence in my make-up. I’m pretty sure I’d be a wife-hitter, too. (I give great thanks that for most of my life I have not been in a position to be a bully…because a very few times, when I was, I was.) Some people are made to be great parents. Bless 'em, and I wish them the best of it. (Otherwise, the human adventure comes to a halt pretty quickly!) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/34 "2016-08-14T02:33:41Z")
Having kids does, most definitely, change people, at least in a great many cases. To begin with…they stop having fun with their friends: all their effort is into having fun with their spouse and kids. This isn’t a bad thing! It’s very natural, and makes perfect sense. People who have kids live far more of their lives for their kids, and less for other segments of society. Kids are extremely needy, and must have large amounts of attention. That, in itself, changes people very dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/35 "2016-08-14T02:35:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Alas, I have evidence of anger and violence in my make-up. I’m pretty sure I’d be a wife-hitter, too. > > (I give great thanks that for most of my life I have not been in a position to be a bully…because a very few times, when I was, I was.) > > Some people are made to be great parents. Bless 'em, and I wish them the best of it. (Otherwise, the human adventure comes to a halt pretty quickly!) Fair enough, and I applaud you for you honesty here and perhaps your foresight, or at least, your prudence on mitigating such things in your relationships. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/36 "2016-08-14T02:36:18Z")
I’ll explain my train of thought when I typed that post, and then even if you still disagree with me, maybe you’ll at least understand that in my mind there was an underlying logic or thought process. Would you say that a person that never experienced real romantic love, like a deep powerful infatuation in the beginning that lead to a many years long true, mature, adult love was emotionally incomplete or stunted to use that word again in some way? Because I think romantic love is similar to but not as strong as parental love. If you have experienced romantic love, I think you have experienced an increased amount of empathy and understanding of the human condition and I think not just for that one person but for others outside that relationship as well, and with parental love I think it is greater still, at least it was for me personally. And just like with parental love, the ability to experience true romantic love requires you to pay a price in that for gaining the ability to experience those emotions and feelings you have also opened yourself up to the possibility of pain and emotional trauma or sorrow. So in my mind its the same thing some people never fall in love or experience those things and I think whether due to choice to not be put in that situation or through no choice of their own, I think they are less mature and emotionally complete than those who have experienced it. I don’t really mean that they are lesser than I am in the sense that I am superior to them, like a better person, just that I’ve done things and felt things that they can’t really understand without having gone through it and I can tell the difference between the person I was before, and the person I am now. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/37 "2016-08-14T02:40:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > You might be surprised (if you were to have a child). One of the things that terrified me about having kids was the fact that I do like my freedom and solitude. But now that I have one, it’s hard not to be fascinated and excited by all the stupid funny little things they do because everything is new to them. That’s the kind of comment that childfree/childless by choice people often get - oh, you say you don’t want a child because you’re afraid, but you might change your mind if you have one… Certainly there are people who thought they didn’t want a child and changed their minds later, but it’s just as valid not to want one and never become a parent. Why does there always have to be that second guessing, that “oh, you just _think_ you don’t want one” stuff? I’m sure that most parents love their kids and want to raise them to become well adjusted, functional adults. I’m sure they do worry about their children’s safety, even after they become adults, and dread the mere thought of their children being injured/ill or even dying. I certainly believe that changes one’s life in a way that can never be undone and you can’t go back to being the person you were before. But I’m still not sure how that makes someone a better person, more empathic, etc., or does anything out of the ordinary, frankly. Certainly raising children to become functional adults is better for society than not, but certainly childless/childfree people can find other ways to contribute to society. Plus, taking good care of your children is not just a selfless endeavor. It benefits the parent to raise kids who will grow up and have their own kids, thus carrying on the line. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/38 "2016-08-14T02:44:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Having kids does, most definitely, change people, at least in a great many cases. > > To begin with…they stop having fun with their friends: all their effort is into having fun with their spouse and kids. > > This isn’t a bad thing! It’s very natural, and makes perfect sense. People who have kids live far more of their lives for their kids, and less for other segments of society. Kids are extremely needy, and must have large amounts of attention. \*\* That, in itself, changes people very dramatically.\*\* It certainly does. At least for the parents that stick around. Parenting is HARD. It doesn’t come with a manual. And it takes a ton of patience, not only with yourself, but with them. But your kids… goddamn, your kids surprise you in ways that simply cannot be a part of the human experience until you go through them yourselves. It’s hardly all sunshine and rainbows. In fact, it’s mostly frustrating and a lesson in patience. But there are moments of profound insight and recognition that you just can’t get from anything else. Speaking of, the first time I saw my daughter, the very first thought that went through my head was “She looks familiar.” It was such a simple, honest thought at the time, but such a profound moment when thinking back on it. Especially now that she looks more like me than her mother. However, did I know what I was in for in raising a human being over the next 18 years? Fuck no! Most of it’s been so hard and frustrating (as said), but the experience _shapes_ you. They become adult humans too, and you begin to share with them and soon enough… _learn_ from them. That makes it worth, well fuck… everything. You cynics can go ahead and puke now. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/39 "2016-08-14T02:47:10Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I do think that it’s fair to say that becoming a parent is a transformative experience. It’s not the ONLY transformative experience, and it’s not always a positive transformation, but saying becoming a parent has no fundamental effect is as wrong headed as saying it’s the only way to become emotionally complete. > > Like many transformative experiences–travel, college, falling in love-it’s hard not to make the leap from “essential component of who I am” to “essential component of who anyone is”. Because once you’ve transformed, you literally can’t imagine yourself not having done that. She’s right again, folks. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658/40 "2016-08-14T02:59:01Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > That’s the kind of comment that childfree/childless by choice people often get - oh, you say you don’t want a child because you’re afraid, but you might change your mind if you have one… > > Certainly there are people who thought they didn’t want a child and changed their minds later, but it’s just as valid not to want one and never become a parent. Why does there always have to be that second guessing, that “oh, you just _think_ you don’t want one” stuff? > > I’m sure that most parents love their kids and want to raise them to become well adjusted, functional adults. I’m sure they do worry about their children’s safety, even after they become adults, and dread the mere thought of their children being injured/ill or even dying. I certainly believe that changes one’s life in a way that can never be undone and you can’t go back to being the person you were before. > > But I’m still not sure how that makes someone a better person, more empathic, etc., or does anything out of the ordinary, frankly. Certainly raising children to become functional adults is better for society than not, but certainly childless/childfree people can find other ways to contribute to society. > > Plus, taking good care of your children is not just a selfless endeavor. It benefits the parent to raise kids who will grow up and have their own kids, thus carrying on the line. I’ve never been one to push or suggest everybody have children. If you don’t want any, don’t. But at the same time, you have to admit it’s one of the ultimate experiences of being _human._ Like solving a problem that mattered to you. Like fucking. Like falling in love. Having kids is part of this. It’s not for everybody, but there is no arguing it’s hardwired into our genetics. For myself, it all worked out more than I could’ve imagined. Everybody has to deal with this on their own terms, and maybe to a lot, it’s not much of a decision. :shrug: You’ll never know what you’re missing, but at the same time, you can’t care about what you’ve missed, since you’ve never known it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-nails-it-childless-at-52-how-sweet-it-would-be-to-be-called-dad/762658.md?page=3)