# The Guardian: U.S. poses a greater danger than North Korea **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992 "2006-11-03T17:05:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/41 "2006-11-04T11:51:05Z")
Ah bugger, old age creeping up, still, I don’t think you can make much of less than 6 years of onternational relationships in this context. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/42 "2006-11-04T11:52:42Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] \*\*If you’re the one whose relative is dead, of course it does. \*\* The awesome, almost mystical ability of some (and I stress some) Americans to turn a blind eye to the fact that they are not a different species from the people who live in other countries is just… it’s awe-inspiring. I cannot believe people can be so insular. Let me break it down for you. Suppose China had a army way, way bigger than anyone had thought, with hidden superduper cargo planes in the tens of thousands, and invades the United States tomorrow and overruns it with astonishing speed. Suppose they then occupy it for years on end. In so doing, some Chinese soldiers rape your little sister, shoot her, and set the body on fire to hide the crime. Or maybe they just blow your whole family away at a checkpoint. Or perhaps your son is playing soccer and they machine gun him to death. Or maybe a Chinese plane bombs a wedding and kills your wife… [/QUOTE] More to the point, as I stated a few days ago, if it had been China or Russia that invaded Iraq instead, in exactly the same circumstances, everybody in the US would be screaming blue murder. And with reason, but now, oh no, IOKIUSTDI. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/43 "2006-11-04T11:58:01Z")
Spelling gets difficult at my age too. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/44 "2006-11-04T13:41:45Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] I cannot agree. Compare what is reported in say, the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, The Guardian, and the BBC. [/QUOTE] Nobody would seriously claim that the Daily Mail maintains a strict distinction between editorialisation and news. Some would claim it of the BBC, perhaps with some validity. The two of your four examples where it is most clear are the Telegraph and Guardian, and their news reporting is often very similar. Which kind of proves my point, I feel. [QUOTE=Quartz] And their biases are well-known too. Your point is? [/QUOTE] That all these newspapers use ICM polls contradicts the suggestion of inherent bias: [QUOTE=Lochdale] The poll was conducted with the Guardian’s involvement. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/45 "2006-11-04T16:52:06Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Nobody would seriously claim that the Daily Mail maintains a strict distinction between editorialisation and news. [/QUOTE] Cite? Or, now which [logical fallacy](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/) is that? As I recall, you don’t read the Daily Mail, so who are you to pass judgement? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/46 "2006-11-04T16:56:55Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Cite? Or, now which [logical fallacy](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/) is that? As I recall, you don’t read the Daily Mail, so who are you to pass judgement? [/QUOTE] I don’t buy it, no. I read it in the pub. Are you telling me that the Mail has the same separation of the two as the Guardian and Telegraph, or not? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/47 "2006-11-04T17:02:58Z")
[QUOTE=Hey you!] Are we really the bad guys? [/QUOTE] We’re mad, bad, and dangerous to know. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/48 "2006-11-04T17:58:50Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] I don’t buy it, no. I read it in the pub. Are you telling me that the Mail has the same separation of the two as the Guardian and Telegraph, or not? [/QUOTE] If you’re making the claim, you back it up. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/49 "2006-11-04T18:00:53Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] The awesome, almost mystical ability of some (and I stress some) Americans to turn a blind eye to the fact that they are not a different species from the people who live in other countries is just… it’s awe-inspiring. [/QUOTE] Actually, **Rick,** we **are** a different species. There’s this step in the naturalization process we don’t much like to talk about . . . ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/50 "2006-11-04T18:19:04Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] If you’re making the claim, you back it up. [/QUOTE] You’re getting distracted. We were told earlier in the thread that we couldn’t trust the survey in question because of the Guardian’s left-wing editorial stance. I said that this was irrelevant, because this article was not part of the Guardian’s editorialising. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/51 "2006-11-04T18:24:19Z")
[QUOTE=Lochdale] The poll was conducted with the Guardian’s involvement. [/QUOTE] Could you be more specific, in showing the depth and nature of that involvement, and how it invalidates the poll results? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/52 "2006-11-04T18:31:39Z")
They can’t do that to our presidents! Only WE can do that to our president. Bush isn’t even that popular in _this_ country, let alone elsewhere. If you did a survey here and limited it to all the large “red” cities you’d probably get a similar result. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/53 "2006-11-04T18:47:26Z")
In just the last week or so we’ve had all these major “gee whiz” reports and surveys - Global Warming To Bankrupt Everybody, No More Seafood By Mid-Century, and now Bush The Worst Threat to World Peace In Anyone’s Short-Term Memory. Wonder what other revelations will ensue before Tuesday’s U.S. elections. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/54 "2006-11-05T01:00:46Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] He specified this century, **casdave**. [/QUOTE] And quite intentionally, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/55 "2006-11-05T01:17:45Z")
I don’t doubt the poll’s results, and I don’t see any reason to think that The Guardian is cooking the books on this one. I just don’t put much stock in public opinion polls as being a worthwhile method to assess the gravity of a given threat. In the same sense that people generally are more afraid of flying than driving, this poll just tells me that people are largely irrational in their fears. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/56 "2006-11-05T01:24:08Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I don’t doubt the poll’s results, and I don’t see any reason to think that The Guardian is cooking the books on this one. I just don’t put much stock in public opinion polls as being a worthwhile method to assess the gravity of a given threat. In the same sense that people generally are more afraid of flying than driving, this poll just tells me that people are largely irrational in their fears. [/QUOTE] How is it irrational to think that the US is more likely to invade a foreign country than North Korea is? I can’t imagine any sane, objective person believing otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/57 "2006-11-05T01:29:43Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] How is it irrational to think that the US is more likely to invade a foreign country than North Korea is? I can’t imagine any sane, objective person believing otherwise. [/QUOTE] There’s more to “world peace” than who invades whom. For example, it’s the US which is laregely responsible for the fact that NK isn’t going to invade anyone anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/58 "2006-11-05T02:52:55Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] There’s more to “world peace” than who invades whom. For example, it’s the US which is laregely responsible for the fact that NK isn’t going to invade anyone anytime soon. [/QUOTE] Well sure. The US is a major part of the reason that Kim isn’t really all that serious a threat to world peace. That doesn’t prevent the US from being a threat to world peace in other parts of the world, completely independent from the situation on the Korean peninsula. I suppose you could try to move down on the list by pulling out of South Korea, bumping Kim up to top spot by giving him more latitude to do stuff - though I suspect Japan and South Korea can keep the lid on by themselves. Look, quite simply, the most serious prospect of a major war in the near future is a conflagration centering on an Iraq civil war, spilling over to involve Turkey and Iran and possibly the Saudis. And if that happens, the one man most responsible for the situation will be the man who destroyed the central authority in Iraq without making adequate provisions to replace it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/59 "2006-11-05T08:00:25Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] In just the last week or so we’ve had all these major “gee whiz” reports and surveys - Global Warming To Bankrupt Everybody, No More Seafood By Mid-Century, and now Bush The Worst Threat to World Peace In Anyone’s Short-Term Memory. Wonder what other revelations will ensue before Tuesday’s U.S. elections. [/QUOTE] Revelations ? Only to people who weren’t paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992/60 "2006-11-05T20:36:04Z")
The article says the poll was run with The Toronto Star Israels Haaretz Mexicos Reforma The point was are we more dangerous than Kim. He is dangerous to his own people.We are dangerous to the whole world. we win. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-guardian-u-s-poses-a-greater-danger-than-north-korea/378992.md?page=4)