# The gun and ammo hoarders may have been right **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837 "2017-02-02T18:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/61 "2017-02-02T23:36:30Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Sometimes “gun control” means being able to hit the son of a bitch 😉 Ha! I _was_ pretty good with a .22 at summer camp (alas, that option has been eliminated, thanks to liability lawyering). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/62 "2017-02-02T23:41:50Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > [URL=“[Alan Alda - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000257/?ref_=tt_trv_qu)”] **Hawkeye Pierce:** I’ll carry your books, I’ll carry a torch, I’ll carry a tune, I’ll carry on, carry over, carry forward, Cary Grant, cash-and-carry, carry me back to Old Virginia, I’ll even ‘hari-kari’ if you show me how, but I will not carry a gun. I remember seeing that episode when I was a freshman in college in Chicago (late 80s) – I’d never heard of hara kiri, so I wondered “He must be referring to the Chicago sports announcer Harry Caray – man, has that guy really been around since the early 50s, or did the TV writers commit an anachronism?”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/63 "2017-02-02T23:42:42Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Neither of which has ever been in danger of disappearing, much as the NRA would love you to believe that it’s so. Yeah, I’m still waiting for Operation Jade helmet, the UN takeover, Obamacare death panels, and the FEMA death camps too 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/64 "2017-02-02T23:56:57Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Oh, please. The anti 1st, anti 2nd, anti 10th, anti constitutional party is and has been the left leaning one. This is serious Bizarro World bullshit. Your side is the one that keeps attempting to enact laws that give conservative Christians special priority and allows them to ignore the law, until they’re overturned as unconstitutional. Your side are the ones who have, for the last decade, been claiming that Muslims don’t have rights (to the extent that you’ll pretend not to hate us queer folk in order to use us as a bludgeon against the Muslims by pretending that the theocrats speak for all Muslims and that you don’t agree with the theocrats about us). Your side is the one that whines, incessantly, about how any form of criticism is illegal. (Quick rule of thumb: The more someone screams about ‘my free speech!’ the more likely they are to be complaining about someone else using theirs, and the less likely they are to be facing a violation of theirs.) Nobody has ever proposed, let alone tried to enact a law that would violate the second amendment. And this tenth amendment bullshit is nothing but a handwave to pretend that states are allowed to enact the kind of bigoted, evil laws described above. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/65 "2017-02-03T00:04:30Z")
Hey, at least folks acknowledge that the Tenth Amendment exists. Conservatives go around violating the Ninth all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/66 "2017-02-03T00:13:36Z")
> [@Blinkyandpinky](#): > > It’s too late for you all. > > We have such a head start on you, that there is simply no way that you can make up for the many decades of stockpiling that normal good Americans have been doing. > > I especially like when the left resorts to violence or threatens violent actions or speaks of some sort of war, because that war would be hilarious and one of the shortest wars ever. I can see right now the glee you feel as you imagine yourself standing atop the bodies of 100 Clinton supporters and their infant children. Blood and vicera stain your boots as you glory in the smell of victory. “Welcome to Trumps America, MotherF\*\*\*er!” you cry as you pick off survivors one by one. How dare they criticize our glorious leader. The fact that they were unarmed makes the carnage even more satisfying. The only good Liberal’s a dead liberal. Glad to help you flesh out your erotic fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/67 "2017-02-03T00:16:02Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Not because Obama was ever going to “come for their guns”, but because they may just need them soon to defend their cities and homes against an occupying Trump army. Defend against the fascist army? They will \*constitute \*it. Proudly. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/68 "2017-02-03T03:15:40Z")
The only reason I’d buy a gun is to kill myself. And I’d probably be already dead if I owned one. They are useless as defense against a modern military. As for the military, the US military is right wing and I’m sure would be perfectly happy to march into California and kill all of us “liberal traitors” and “inferior races”. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/69 "2017-02-03T03:16:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Defend against the fascist army? They will \*constitute \*it. Proudly. Should be a royal fuckfest when a group of armed ‘militia’ show up at a protest for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/70 "2017-02-03T03:17:45Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Should be a royal fuckfest when a group of armed ‘militia’ show up at a protest for the first time. They’ve been doing that for years. They get away with it because they are right wing, and so are pandered to. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/71 "2017-02-03T03:36:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The only reason I’d buy a gun is to kill myself. And I’d probably be already dead if I owned one. They are useless as defense against a modern military. > > As for the military, the US military is right wing and I’m sure would be perfectly happy to march into California and kill all of us “liberal traitors” and “inferior races”. I’m sure they would be far from happy, and such a thing would never happen. A militia and the US military are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/72 "2017-02-03T03:45:25Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > …Glad to help you flesh out your erotic fantasy. You mispelled “necrotic”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/73 "2017-02-03T03:47:34Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Should be a royal fuckfest when a group of armed ‘militia’ show up at a protest for the first time. Greensboro massacre, November, 1979. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They’ve been doing that for years. They get away with it because they are right wing, and so are pandered to. They were all acquitted. Twice. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/74 "2017-02-03T03:55:49Z")
> [@Blinkyandpinky](#): > > It’s too late for you all. > > We have such a head start on you, that there is simply no way that you can make up for the many decades of stockpiling that normal good Americans have been doing. > > I especially like when the left resorts to violence or threatens violent actions or speaks of some sort of war, because that war would be hilarious and one of the shortest wars ever. You seem to forget that us left-wingers are in the blue states, and that we control all the money. I myself am as rich as Croesus. I will buy ALL THE GUNS, and i will shoot you. **Blinks** : "Here is my gun! It has an EIGHT INCH BARREL. **Me** : Here is MY gun. It has a twelve inch barrel. **All the Girls** : OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/75 "2017-02-03T04:36:14Z")
> [@](#): > > …All the Girls: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Who have a long sought a man of your caliber. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/76 "2017-02-03T04:47:52Z")
Are the so-called “Oathkeepers” still a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/77 "2017-02-03T05:16:38Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Are the so-called “Oathkeepers” still a thing? [Yup.](https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/) > [@](#): > > “Federal law enforcement agencies in general — the FBI, the Marshals, the ATF — are aware that extremists have infiltrated state and local law enforcement agencies and that there are people in law enforcement agencies that may be sympathetic to these groups,” said Daryl Johnson, who was the lead researcher on the DHS report. Johnson, who now runs DT Analytics, a consulting firm that analyzes domestic extremism, says the problem has since gotten “a lot more troublesome.” > > Johnson singled out the Oath Keepers and the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association for their anti-government attitudes and efforts to recruit active as well as retired law enforcement officers. “That’s the biggest issue and it’s greater now than it’s ever been, in my opinion.” Johnson added that Homeland Security has given up tracking right-wing domestic extremists. “It’s only the FBI now,” he said, adding that local police departments don’t seem to be doing anything to address the problem. “There’s not even any training now to make state and local police aware of these groups and how they could infiltrate their ranks.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/78 "2017-02-03T06:17:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > Producing that image seems to be the goal of many in the main stream media. To the degree that this is aimed at outside the USA, it is a laudable goal, because the more people think, “The USA doesn’t actually like Trump that much”, the less people think, “Wow, the USA is completely fucking unhinged and we need to find better partners in trade and warfare. Let’s get out of that fucking mess.” See, here’s the thing. For some reason, most of the rest of the world gets what you guys don’t. The republican party is crazy. Trump is _crazy_. The entire world is incredibly ill-served when you fuckwits gain power. So implying, “Nah, the USA isn’t _really_ that stupid” is doing you guys a favor you don’t deserve. Because you _are_ that stupid. > [@octopus](#): > > How do you enact comprehensive social programs without the might of the state? Stupid cynical bullshit. You fucking libertarians are going to be absolutely _no_ use when actual tyranny comes, because you wouldn’t know tyranny if it shoved a 12-inch cock up your ass while stomping on your face and screaming “YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS”. You’ve spent all this time complaining about tyranny when all you’re referring to is a democratic society with things like social programs and a central government; can you tell the fucking _difference_ between that and a truly tyrannical society? Do you even have the slightest clue? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/79 "2017-02-03T07:34:06Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Liberals expand government by funding food stamp programs and providing universal healthcare. Conservatives do so by Strengthening the military, militarizing the police, and expanding their powers, and tough on crime dictates that increase incarceration rates and circumvent constitutional civil liberty protection. I leave it up to you to decide which of these are more likely to lead to jack booted thugs coming to take you away. Consolidating power is dangerous. Even if the consolidation is to streamline a SNAP card. I don’t mind social programs. I do mind how they are implemented and administered. Take the VA for example. It does a shitty job because being a huge bureaucracy it cares mostly about it’s own self preservation. Without the ability to fail and have competition what incentive does it have to change? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is another very silly statement. What’s with you lately? Suddenly all liberals, and all Democrats, are guilty of what a small minority do? Does that mean that all Republicans and conservatives want to murder black church-goers? I agree. The level of discourse is relatively bad. I would like to see some pushback from the sane left on their more extreme brethren though. > [@SteveG1](#): > > I for one, have always been in favor of the private ownership of guns - along with laws to take them away from maniacs and violent felons. Freedom plus sensible legal limits. As are many many other “libruls” > > I’ve never made a secret of it. Neither have many other “libruls.” > > But if you like to talk about you and Trump coming to gun us down for not bowing down, for daring to politically or verbally oppose you, for exercising our constitutional and legal and natural rights to do so, don’t any of you DARE to wave the flag or say we are the un-American traitors. Who on the right is talking about murder? The only political violence I have seen lately is from the left. > [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > This is serious Bizarro World bullshit. > > Your side is the one that keeps attempting to enact laws that give conservative Christians special priority and allows them to ignore the law, until they’re overturned as unconstitutional. > > Your side are the ones who have, for the last decade, been claiming that Muslims don’t have rights (to the extent that you’ll pretend not to hate us queer folk in order to use us as a bludgeon against the Muslims by pretending that the theocrats speak for all Muslims and that you don’t agree with the theocrats about us). > > Your side is the one that whines, incessantly, about how any form of criticism is illegal. (Quick rule of thumb: The more someone screams about ‘my free speech!’ the more likely they are to be complaining about someone else using theirs, and the less likely they are to be facing a violation of theirs.) > > Nobody has ever proposed, let alone tried to enact a law that would violate the second amendment. > > And this tenth amendment bullshit is nothing but a handwave to pretend that states are allowed to enact the kind of bigoted, evil laws described above. Pure nonsense. All of it. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The only reason I’d buy a gun is to kill myself. And I’d probably be already dead if I owned one. They are useless as defense against a modern military. > > As for the military, the US military is right wing and I’m sure would be perfectly happy to march into California and kill all of us “liberal traitors” and “inferior races”. Please don’t harm yourself. I’ll miss your posts. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > To the degree that this is aimed at outside the USA, it is a laudable goal, because the more people think, “The USA doesn’t actually like Trump that much”, the less people think, “Wow, the USA is completely fucking unhinged and we need to find better partners in trade and warfare. Let’s get out of that fucking mess.” See, here’s the thing. For some reason, most of the rest of the world gets what you guys don’t. The republican party is crazy. Trump is _crazy_. The entire world is incredibly ill-served when you fuckwits gain power. So implying, “Nah, the USA isn’t _really_ that stupid” is doing you guys a favor you don’t deserve. Because you _are_ that stupid. > > Stupid cynical bullshit. You fucking libertarians are going to be absolutely _no_ use when actual tyranny comes, because you wouldn’t know tyranny if it shoved a 12-inch cock up your ass while stomping on your face and screaming “YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS”. You’ve spent all this time complaining about tyranny when all you’re referring to is a democratic society with things like social programs and a central government; can you tell the fucking _difference_ between that and a truly tyrannical society? Do you even have the slightest clue? Yes I do have a clue. That’s why I like balances of power and constraints on the government. That way when a nut gets in power they are constrained. Duh! I’ve been for limited government since I was a child in the Reagan era because I actually read and understand history and human nature. I hope Trump takes full advantage of whatever constraints have been removed from the executive in the name of expediency so that when he is out of power rational people on the right and the left can have a renewed sense of appreciation for limited power. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837/80 "2017-02-03T07:51:33Z")
Non-violent revolutions tend to work better than violent ones, according to Erica Chenoweth’s work. When the military and police refuse to fire into the crowds the government is done. This can take only 3-5% of the total population. A lot of Americans own pistols and shotguns, which would be of questionable use in an asymmetric war against the USG. If you look at the American military in Iraq or Afghanistan, most casualties were from IEDs, RPGs, mortars, mines, truck bombs, and so on. Small arms fire is more useful after you force a convoy to stop, or after the wall in the base is blown up, or for picking off collaborators or other soft targets. Some here might want to review [a standard two axis political chart.](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/171/672/a61.jpg) Anarchists are extreme leftists. Leftist movements tend to oppose hierarchical structures and favor democracy. It’s hard to smash capitalism without smashing the state that enforces it. Both American parties support the security state, though one tries to be less enthusiastic about it. It’s difficult to have conversations with people who think the PATRIOT act, mass spying, militarized police, mass imprisonment of the population, and stupendous concentrations of wealth controlled by unaccountable top down private organizations are examples of freedom, but one’s taxes being used to pay for other people’s healthcare through voting is tyranny. But that’s America for you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-and-ammo-hoarders-may-have-been-right/778837.md?page=5)