# The Gun Debate itself: a synthesis **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-debate-itself-a-synthesis/644739 "2012-12-21T14:57:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-debate-itself-a-synthesis/644739/101 "2013-01-02T18:44:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Here you go](http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/historical-crime-data/rec-crime-1898-2002). There are fewer than 1,000 homicides in Britain per year. It’s not because it’s a place full of nice people, I can assure you. It’s because nobody has a gun. No guns, or no handguns? ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-debate-itself-a-synthesis/644739/102 "2013-01-02T19:13:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If he was talking about off-duty policemen, he’s an idiot of the highest magnitude. There wouldn’t be enough policemen in an average town to cover the schools, even if they all were _forced_ to take on this second job. In South Carolina, we have on duty police officers assigned to every school. They are called School Resource Officers. They address crimes that happen on school grounds and take part in educating them on safety, fitness and an array of other things. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-debate-itself-a-synthesis/644739/103 "2013-01-02T19:19:37Z")
We have SROs in Florida, too, but only in high schools, I think. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > If you are going to claim gun ownership rates are correlated to homicide rates you need a cite for that too. As far as I know there is no obvious pattern. There’s not going to be an obvious pattern because gun control is not the only factor that affects homicide rates. There are still going to be knifings, and so on. It correlates with other things too - but [here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384). Look at the graph halfway down, which shows an overall downward trend since 2001, when the 1997 Firearms Act changes would be expected to have an effect. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > No guns, or no handguns? Both, really, though the 1997 amendments primarily affected handgun ownership (which was already minimal, frankly). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-debate-itself-a-synthesis/644739/104 "2013-01-02T19:35:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Both, really, though the 1997 amendments primarily affected handgun ownership (which was already minimal, frankly). Do people not hunt? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-debate-itself-a-synthesis/644739/105 "2013-01-02T19:54:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Here you go](http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/historical-crime-data/rec-crime-1898-2002). There are fewer than 1,000 homicides in Britain per year. It’s not because it’s a place full of nice people, I can assure you. It’s because nobody has a gun. Do they have a knife ban too? The USA has [more knife homicides than that every year](http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html#table2_9). ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-debate-itself-a-synthesis/644739/106 "2013-01-02T20:00:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There’s not going to be an obvious pattern because gun control is not the only factor that affects homicide rates. There are still going to be knifings, and so on. It correlates with other things too - but [here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384). Look at the graph halfway down, which shows an overall downward trend since 2001, when the 1997 Firearms Act changes would be expected to have an effect. > > Both, really, though the 1997 amendments primarily affected handgun ownership (which was already minimal, frankly). Did you read you own cite? > [@](#): > > Statisticians say the figures broadly mirror reductions elsewhere in the developed world, so it would be unfair of politicians, police or doctors here to claim the credit for a phenomenon that appears to be driven by something more fundamental. > > Nevertheless, officials believe that efforts to bear down on domestic and family-related violence, which account for two-thirds of killings, is a key factor in the homicide fall. > > Police and probation officers have made huge strides in recent years in identifying people who are at risk of attack and ensuring violent criminals are monitored more effectively. Where do they even claim gun control helped in that article? Note a much larger ban in Australia did nothing. > [@](#): > > “Despite the fact that several researchers using the same data have examined the impact of the NFA on firearm deaths, a consensus does not appear to have been reached. In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.” Cite: (warning pdf) [http://www.melbourneinstitute.com/wp/wp2008n17.pdf](http://www.melbourneinstitute.com/wp/wp2008n17.pdf) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-gun-debate-itself-a-synthesis/644739.md?page=5)