# THE HAGUE **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 24, 2000, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559 "2000-11-24T18:44:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![don\_willard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@don\_willard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_willard)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/1 "2000-11-24T18:44:20Z")
Why is the Hague called the Hague with a the in front of it, and is the the capitalized? Also, why does the Chersonese have the the in front of it? There are several more of these. My guess is that after Hague and Chersonese et. al. there must be an “understood” noun, such as The Hague City, for instance. But this doesn’t clear this mystery up completely. ---
**Author:** ![FloChi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@FloChi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloChi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/2 "2000-11-24T18:52:30Z")
Well in Dutch it is called ‘Den Haag’ so I guess we just took the straight translation. As to what a ‘Haag’ is, I have no idea. I believe that other posters can give a much clearer picture. ---
**Author:** ![JoAnneSchmitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JoAnneSchmitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoAnneSchmitz)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/3 "2000-11-24T19:07:27Z")
FloChi said: “As to what a ‘Haag’ is, I have no idea. I believe that other posters can give a much clearer picture.” It must have something to do with ice cream. (Well, I can hope, can’t I?) -JoAnne ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/4 "2000-11-24T19:24:51Z")
It literally translates to “The Hedge”, referring to an area reserved for hunting for some medieval king or prince. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/5 "2000-11-24T19:51:35Z")
The _The_ is capitalized. For what it’s worth, I thought the Dutch form was **'s Gravenhage** (The Count’s Enclosure). Perhaps that’s the long form, and Den Haag is the short form? Let me think. Who do we know who might know this? Think, think, think … ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/6 "2000-11-25T00:43:11Z")
Why ‘the Gambia’, ‘the Soudan’? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/7 "2000-11-25T01:21:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > \*\*The _The_ is capitalized. For what it’s worth, I thought the Dutch form was **'s Gravenhage** (The Count’s Enclosure). Perhaps that’s the long form, and Den Haag is the short form? Let me think. Who do we know who might know this? Think, think, think … \*\* Absolutely spot on! I’m impressed. Enclosure… could be. I’d stick with the more literal “hedge”, though. Also: **'s Hertogenbosch** (“The Duke’s Forrest”) becomes **Den Bosch**. The _'s_ is short for _des_, an obsolete grammar “fall” (as in the German falls - is that the right term in English?) that implies possesion. In German, 4 “falls” still exist. Dutch only uses two actively (the first and fourth), whereas the second is only used sporadically in archaic expressions and city names. People who speak German will know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/8 "2000-11-25T01:24:39Z")
Oh, and “The” is most likely capitalised because in Dutch, the “Den” is an integral part of the name, and is thusly written with a capital “D”. See, I CAN answer an OP, if I really put my mind to it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/9 "2000-11-25T01:46:03Z")
Coldfire, the english word you are looking for is “case”. German has four cases: nominative, accusative, genitive, dative. The case that implies possession is the genitive case. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/10 "2000-11-25T01:59:59Z")
Case! That’s it. Thanks, Arnold. _Die Zweite Falle_, if I’m not mistaken. Or is it _Faelle_? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/11 "2000-11-25T08:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by omni-not \* > Why ‘the Gambia’, ‘the Soudan’? Each has their own reason, along with the Ukraine, the Argentine (a largely obsolete term), the Levant, etc. A lot of them are because we got the name from French, which tends to put articles on names where English would generally drop it. However, the Ukraine was from Russian meaning the borderlands. I believe Cecil discussed the origin of The Bronx in one of his columns (which I am too lazy to hunt down right now). Another US place (also due to partial translation from French) is The Dalles, OR. ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/12 "2000-11-25T18:54:33Z")
Thanks. Never heard of ‘the Argentine’ before. You’re quite right in saying that French usually uses the article (although not systematically). As far as Gambia and Soudan are concerned, I don’t think this was a factor, however. As for the Bronx, IIRC it comes from the name of a wealthy turn-of-the-century family called Bronc who lived in that burrough at the time. People invited to their numerous parties and social functions would say that they were going to the Broncs. The name stuck. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/13 "2000-11-25T19:19:49Z")
Cecil Adams: [Why is the Bronx called THE Bronx?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_248.html) ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/14 "2000-11-25T19:31:11Z")
In Spanish, you may hear “La Argentina” and “El Peru”, but it’s not a given. You do have to say “El Salvador”. Someone really got on my case here once when I asked why. The reason was that “El” is part of the official name of the country. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/15 "2000-11-25T20:13:40Z")
Regarding Ukraine: when the U.S.S.R. broke up and Ukraine declared itself a country, they announced that they did not want the article used (in English, at least). At the time of the announcement, part of the reason given was that the article “the” indicated an inferior or subjugated position. (I’m not sure how that works since the Russian language does not even have articles–I don’t know whether Ukrainian has articles, or not–but I saw no reason to challenge Ukrainians on their preferences.) The Ukraine = dependent state of Russia or the U.S.S.R. Ukraine = current independent country. ---
**Author:** ![SkinnyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@SkinnyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkinnyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/16 "2000-11-25T21:58:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Case! That’s it. Thanks, Arnold. _Die Zweite Falle_, if I’m not mistaken. Or is it _Faelle_? \*\* Der Fall, die Fälle / Faelle. It should have been Coldy or me. Ten points for **bibliophage**. Addendum to **'s Hertogenbosch** : This is the only official name for this city. Both **'s Gravenhage** and **Den Haag** are official. (Highway signs display **Den Haag** and **'s Hertogenbosch**.) Addendum to the French using the article: They _do_ use it systematically. For instance la France, le Danmark, les Etas-Unis. Why some countries are considered male or female, now _that’s_ something I’d like to know. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/17 "2000-11-25T23:08:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by omni-not \* > As far as Gambia and Soudan are concerned, I don’t think this [French] was a factor, however. I always thought the Soudan was from French, but I could easily be wrong. My next guess would be that it’s from Arabic, which uses the article on names even more than French does. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/18 "2000-11-25T23:24:27Z")
Sudan’s official name translates into English as “Republic of the Sudan” However, the official name is in Arabic so I’m not sure if my source is translating that language correctly into English. ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2000, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/19 "2000-11-26T00:42:52Z")
Sudan comes from the Arab ‘al-Sudan’, so that would explain the article. **dtilque** : > [@](#): > > My next guess would be that it’s from Arabic, which uses the article on names even more than French does. I assume you are referring to _proper_ nouns, because French systematically puts an article (_le_ or _la_) before a common noun to distinguish the masculine and feminine forms. **bibliophage** : Guess I was half right for the Bronks:). ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2000, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559/20 "2000-11-26T02:17:54Z")
Isn’t there a city in Oregon called The Dulles or something like that? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hague/42559.md?page=2)