# The Haitan Creole language had everything revitalized so why didn't it revive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 24, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051 "2023-08-24T20:59:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/41 "2023-08-25T15:25:37Z")
What are you trying to say? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/42 "2023-08-25T15:36:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How similar are Creole and French, anyway? Are they like, say, Yiddish and German? They are not mutually intelligible (e.g., the grammar is different), though there is a lot of vocabulary in common. (Is that the situation with Yiddish and German?) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/43 "2023-08-25T16:12:37Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > In a sense, most world languages are Creole. English certainly is, even though academics have tried to confine it to a codified structure, it has always evolved and assimilated words from other languages. English began as a creole when speakers of, first, Old Norse, and, second, Norman French, invaded England. These speakers in a few centuries became so thoroughly assimilated with the English speakers already there that the language spoken by both the inhabitants and the invaders became what we now call English. It’s not useful to think of it as a creole anymore. It’s now the language most often spoken as the second language of people (i.e., the language they can speak and read that they don’t speak at home) in the world. (Mandarin Chinese and then Spanish are more common as people’s first language.) The fact that English has borrowed and continues to borrow words from many languages doesn’t make it a creole. Lots of languages borrow words from other languages. There’s no precise dividing line between two varieties of a language being separate languages or just two dialects of a language. There are more people in the world who speak at least two languages fluently than there are that speak just one language fluently. Speaking at least two languages from the moment you start learning to talk is no big deal. You just need to regularly talk with at least one speaker of each language. It’s not even a really big deal to grow up speaking three languages. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/44 "2023-08-25T16:17:10Z")
> [@Jagraze1](#): > > What are you trying to say? _Trying?_ I think he said it very plainly and succinctly. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/45 "2023-08-25T16:32:28Z")
> [@Jagraze1](#): > > Maybe it’s time for the Haitians to abandon the Haitian Creole language and start picking on French. Maybe. But it’s truly none of my business. I wish them all the best though. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/46 "2023-08-25T16:46:46Z")
nvm, botched my quoting ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/47 "2023-08-25T20:16:42Z")
I don’t think Kreyòl is in imminent danger. As _the language of the masses_ of the Haitian people, it will endure for a good while. But those Haitians aspiring to higher educations or to economic progress will continue to need to learn French or Spanish or English _as has been the case for centuries_ . If the Haitian elite ever get themselves to care about their masses, **maybe** they’ll provide better education in Kreyòl AND French. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/48 "2023-08-25T20:28:19Z")
Just because, it isn’t in imminent danger does not mean it is safe either. While there may be 12 million speakers of the language, the problem is, it is rarely taught in Haiti schools and people are being beaten for learning their native language. Maybe languages with high number of speakers won’t go extinct so it may barely survive. I don’t know however. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/49 "2023-08-25T20:32:11Z")
Again, what would you have _us_ do about this? ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/50 "2023-08-25T20:42:50Z")
Dude, do you have a sense of autism or what? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/51 "2023-08-25T21:39:58Z")
> [@Jagraze1](#): > > do you have a sense of autism or what? While you could have meant this, I assume you’re talking about **altruism** And we can agree there is an injustice about kids being punished for speaking a language (see, American and Canadian native tribes for examples) there’s not much we can do about it. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/52 "2023-08-25T21:48:40Z")
I was responding to Czarcasm ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/53 "2023-08-25T21:53:52Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > And we can agree there is an injustice about kids being punished for speaking a language (see, American and Canadian native tribes for examples) there’s not much we can do about it. This, exactly. As has been pointed out in several of the OP’s threads, yes, native and minority languages are endangered in many countries – and this is nothing new, it’s been happening for decades, if not centuries. Other than say, “it’s a shame,” @Jagraze1 seems to be frustrated that we aren’t somehow taking up arms to defend Haitian Creole, Hawaiian, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/54 "2023-08-25T22:00:42Z")
> [@Jagraze1](#): > > I was responding to Czarcasm I was aware of that. But were you really calling him autistic? ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/55 "2023-08-25T22:30:37Z")
No, I was just asking him if he has some autism. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/56 "2023-08-25T22:45:39Z")
Moderating: > [@Jagraze1](#): > > Dude, do you have a sense of autism or what? Don’t comment about posters or make remarks about your perceptions about them in a way that could be taken as an insult or a slur. You’re free to discuss your subject, but do so in a way that doesn’t invoke personal comments about other posters. You’re garnering a lot of flags and not making a good impression on this community. I invite you to reflect on your posting style, else it could impact your posting privileges here. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/57 "2023-08-25T23:49:28Z")
I’m so sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Digger11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Digger11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger11)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/58 "2023-08-26T00:18:39Z")
If French is “the primary language of instruction in most Haitian classrooms” as the article claims, then how is it that so few people can speak it fluently? Something does not compute. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/59 "2023-08-26T01:52:44Z")
Let’s begin by not assuming the schools are even available to the majority. There are few recent statistics but Wayback shows me a report that back in the 00’s [only a little over half of primary school-age children were enrolled in school, and less than 2 per cent finished secondary school](https://web.archive.org/web/20080312123803/http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/haiti.html). This is greatly influenced by abysmal lack of resources and most of the people living on raw survival mode in dire poverty. And things have NOT gotten better on the ground. … Also making a language that is not that of the mass of students the “standard” in schools, absent any other support, does not lead to the masses acquiring fluency. More often, it leads to a larger share of those entering failing out early. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051/60 "2023-09-02T17:42:17Z")
So I know Haitian Creole is a creole language based on French. Why is it considered vulnerable by unesco. Is it because, there is bias against it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-haitan-creole-language-had-everything-revitalized-so-why-didnt-it-revive/989051.md?page=4)