# The hamster ball guy is at it again **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [September 8, 2023, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769 "2023-09-08T10:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JHuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@JHuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHuff)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/1 "2023-09-08T10:55:49Z")
Cecil answered this question some years ago now. > **[Why should taxpayers pick up the tab when some daredevil gets in trouble?](https://www.straightdope.com/21344292/why-should-taxpayers-pick-up-the-tab-when-some-daredevil-gets-in-trouble)** And it may be of interest that our hamster wheeling friend is once again in the news for having cost each of us another 1.2 cents. As it turns out, the coast guard and legal system do not have endless patience for shenanigans. > **[Coast Guard arrests a man trying to run a giant hamster wheel across the...](https://www.npr.org/2023/09/07/1198252469/coast-guard-hamster-wheel-reza-baluchi-atlantic-ocean)** > > It was the fourth time the Coast Guard has intercepted Reza Baluchi on his attempts to self-propel his homemade vessel to destinations including Bermuda, New York and London. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/2 "2023-09-08T11:32:28Z")
I disagree with the example in the link provided because no law was being broken. It was an overly optimistic endeavor that failed. Where I draw the line is at injury incurred during illegal activity. For example, bank robber Joe is fleeing the police and crashes into a wall. I’d save Joe, but he would be charged with the cost, put into collections if necessary, and have his credit trashed for non payment. Any money he earned in prison or received by any other means would be tapped until the bill was paid. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/3 "2023-09-08T12:06:39Z")
Paddling a watercraft from California to Hawaii is doable. It takes 3 months, paddling 9 hours a day, and lots of luck weather wise. It’s been done twice, attempted many times more. > **[Bay Area man becomes second ever to kayak from California to Hawaii](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/23/cyril-derreumaux-california-hawaii-kayak)** > > Cyril Derreumaux, 46, spent 91 days on a ‘magnificent adventure’, traveling 2,400 miles from Monterey to Hilo ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/4 "2023-09-10T03:06:41Z")
I wouldn’t object to the first daredevil attempt to do anything, if it wasn’t clearly illegal. And I wouldn’t insist that he pay for his rescue, however stoopid the idea or attempt was. But for the second or any subsequent attempts, when taxpayer funds were spent on rescuing him and/or the Coast Guard or other lawful authority _ordered him_ not to try it again, then he should be required to pay for those rescue(s). ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/5 "2023-09-12T22:49:58Z")
But he didn’t ask to be rescued. In fact, he not only refused the USCG, he claimed he would self-destruct rather than to yield. (Until he didn’t.) This was 70 miles off the coast of (the US state of) Georgia. Not excusing his foolhardiness (the Coast Guard deemed his floating hamster wheel “manifestly unsafe”), but is that not beyond the point of being in international waters, outside of their jurisdiction? [![](https://frinkiac.com/video/S11E12/dILQbKPvgIFDBhnw6OBO7JHBLDQ=.gif) ](https://frinkiac.com/video/S11E12/dILQbKPvgIFDBhnw6OBO7JHBLDQ=.gif) ---
**Author:** ![JHuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@JHuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHuff)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/6 "2023-09-13T00:36:00Z")
Agreed, the coast guard should have left him, and when he finally did push his little save me beacon, they should have ignored it. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/7 "2023-09-15T00:22:58Z")
As a former emergency responder, in a conversation with someone who is a former _first_ responder (there is a subtle difference), I had some similar questions . . . > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > . . . the Coast Guard or other lawful authority _ordered him_ not to try it again . . . I saw this in the news, and also read that a “Harbor Master”/“Port Master”/“Port Captain” (I don’t recall the specific title) had ordered him not to do this again. But I’ve got some questions . . . - Regarding this Port Master, where does this jurisdiction begin/end? If Baluchi ‘put-in’ at a port/dock/boat ramp, then I get it. Baluchi can ‘put-in’ at a different point, or just start at a public seashore with the Hamster Wheel Of Death (HWOD). - Regarding the Coast Guard, where’s the line of where they _start_ to get involved? Do they care of he’s in the surf zone, walking waist-deep in his knickers ‘bodysurfing’ with his HWOD? Or would they only get involved if he’s in a navigation channel or littoral zone? What if he’s not a hazard to navigation (stikes me as a subjective determination, especially out in the ocean)? - What does a legitimate order look like? Do I get a letter in the mail? Is it issued through a Court like a Federal court order? Lots of skin-deep reporting have me looking to connect some dots. > [@robardin](#): > > This was 70 miles off the coast of (the US state of) Georgia. Not excusing his foolhardiness (the Coast Guard deemed his floating hamster wheel “manifestly unsafe”), but is that not beyond the point of being in international waters, outside of their jurisdiction? This is my main argument on why he _should_ be left alone–he’s on the high seas! IANAL, but the USCG, cannot _compel_ anyone to do anything outside of the 12-mile territorial waters (1). I have to ask at what point the USCG boards vessels for ‘safety inspections’ . . . In this case though, he slipped out past the surf and littoral, so he’s on his own–_cave “surfer dude”_. However, if is beacon activated . . . > [@JHuff](#): > > Agreed, the coast guard should have left him, and when he finally did push his little save me beacon, they should have ignored it. I disagree. There is a financial/human/moral/etc. responsibility to respond to _every_ emergency alarm, regardless of a perception of a real-world, repeat, or presumed-false alarm. Emergency services cannot pick-and-choose which alarms to, for lots of reasons, including exposure to legal liability through inaction on a real-world alarm (aka “cover-yer-a\*\*” or CYA), and erosion of public/financial support in perception of inaction. Now billing for those multiple esponses? Damn skippy they should be assigned to that guy. Using Baluchi as an example, at a minimum, the USCG should have noted the serial number of his beacon on the first alarm’s visit–that one’s free of charge. Second alarm with the same beacon serial number? Dude, here’s a decent bill, but knock it off. Third alarm with the same beacon serial number? Dude, here’s a bigger bill, and we’re going through the courts to put a lien on your house. Fourth? Bigger bill, here’s some jail time, and . . . (I’m running out of ideas for preventing him from going further. . .) (1) I am nether a lawyer, boater, nor a floating lawer, so I could use some references on what to do with my proverbially SeaLand-flagged, pirate-radio-broadcastin’ yacht 14 miles off of Toms River, NJ should the USCG order me to ‘heave to’. Tripler Longwinded, but I think my argument is fully rigged for speed. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/8 "2023-09-15T13:57:03Z")
A US citizen would still be subject to US law, and the lawful orders of the Coast Guard, on waters anywhere, I believe. And the USCG gets around: [Patrol Forces Southwest Asia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrol_Forces_Southwest_Asia) ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/9 "2023-09-21T23:06:14Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > A US citizen would still be subject to US law, and the lawful orders of the Coast Guard, on waters anywhere, I believe. I am aiming to phrase this in the respectful, right way to acknowledge the belief, while still needing to pull the thread, without coming across as an a-hole, so _please_ accept this in good humor and good acaddemic debate. . . “I understand your point, but I gotta see this in writing.” I see two problems with your point: 1. There is a point to be made in [the Loss of Gradient Strength,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_Strength_Gradient) insofar as the further offshore you get, the less assets are available for intercept and enforcement. 2. Coast Guard does get around, but when they’re overseas in support of the Navy they’re under [Title 10 USC](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_10_of_the_United_States_Code), operating under a federal Armed Forces capacity, as opposed to their Department of Homeland Security [Title 14 USC.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_14_of_the_United_States_Code). IANAL but you either operate as a national Armed Force (Title 10) or a Law Enforcement Agency (Title 14). Taking point #2 a step further, from [14 USC Sec. 522](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/14/522): > The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests _upon the high seas and waters **over which the United States has jurisdiction** _, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel _ **subject to the jurisdiction** , or to the operation of any law, of the United States_, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. . . yadda yadda yadda > **Bolding** , _italicization_ and yadda yadda by Tripler There’s gotta be a definitive line, that’s an affirmative defense by a defendant. I thought it was 12 miles offshore, but knowing of a lot of the counter-narcotics intercepts in the Carribean and Gulf of Mexico, I’m not sure what the case law says. I imagine the Cutter Captain submitting an affidavit saying, "We saw a HWOD off the East Coast, and thought it might be smuggling narcotics, so we attempted to board it to ascertain. . . " After writing all this up, in good faith, I was going to pull the [Posse Comitatus Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act) card, but I see that it specifically does _not_ include the USCG. So, it’s _possible_ my US-flagged three-masted xebec can be ordered to ‘heave to’ for a safety inspection 500 miles West of the Galapagos . . .? Tripler I _wish_ this was posted from a 100’ xebec 423 nautical miles West of the Galpagos. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/10 "2023-09-21T23:16:25Z")
“Granted asylum”… Should have been granted insane asylum, more like. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/11 "2023-09-21T23:33:46Z")
Point taken, **Tripler.** ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/12 "2023-09-21T23:58:49Z")
No, no, no . . . you gotta highlight where I’m _wrong_!! You gotta tell me what I’m missing! I ultimately laid out what I _thought_ I know, culminating with a bullethole in my own foot. Please don’t take my over-caffienated post as a stick-in-the-eye. Your short reply tells me you’ve taken offense, which is not my intent–I apologize. Tripler Let me buy you a proverbial beer at the bar, to turn the mic over to you. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/13 "2023-09-22T23:07:33Z")
No, no - I assure you I haven’t taken offense! ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/14 "2023-10-01T12:12:29Z")
I’m still buying you a beverage of your choice. Tripler “A man of his word.” ---
**Author:** ![JHuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@JHuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHuff)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/15 "2023-10-01T13:41:19Z")
Get a room ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/16 "2023-10-02T18:06:58Z")
On an ocean liner, perhaps…? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/17 "2023-10-10T06:11:23Z")
[Here](https://www.loweringthebar.net/2023/09/coast-guard-arrests-guy-just-trying-to-walk-to-london-in-a-floating-hamster-wheel.html) is a legal analysis. Short answer, any vessel owned by a US citizen is considered to be under US jurisdiction even in international waters. The article also includes the detail that he kept the Coast Guard at bay for two days by falsely claiming to have a suicide bomb, which IMO moves him from “eccentric” to “just lock him up”. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/18 "2023-10-11T23:33:38Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > [Here](https://www.loweringthebar.net/2023/09/coast-guard-arrests-guy-just-trying-to-walk-to-london-in-a-floating-hamster-wheel.html) is a legal analysis This helps, thank you! **I stand corrected.** I love this blog, and had seen other articles before. . . don’t know why I missed this one. Thank you! Tripler I’ll heave to. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hamster-ball-guy-is-at-it-again/989769/19 "2023-11-04T01:58:52Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > [Here](https://www.loweringthebar.net/2023/09/coast-guard-arrests-guy-just-trying-to-walk-to-london-in-a-floating-hamster-wheel.html) is a legal analysis. Short answer, **any vessel owned by a US citizen is considered to be under US jurisdiction even in international waters.** So the entire premise of that Simpsons episode “The Mansion Family” (S11E12) where they go into international waters to dodge a Sunday “blue law” and then taunt the Coast Guard… Was for comedy purposes only? DAMN So I can’t just go 12 miles from the coastline to begin rebroadcasting Major League Baseball games based on “implied oral consent” alone?! [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pA5Vbs5RqUM/hqdefault.jpg "The Simpsons S11E12 - Drinking Time Meme Scene (Original) | Lenny & Carl #thesimpsons #cartoon") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA5Vbs5RqUM)