Well, when you’ve shit your pants as a result of one of these annoyances, let me know.
When you shit your pants as you stare helplessly at a perfectly good, EMPTY toilet, one which you can’t reach, and all because someone wanted to be able to fully spread out the front page of the 'Times when they took their dump…the issue is becomes fairly clear to you. But I get it, it’s not fair to ask this guy to be “inconvenienced” and not do this because “handicapped people are rarely seen using them”.
And the mentality is so pervasive in the world of “hey, you’re disabled, life sucks but this is just the way it is so you are just going to have to accept it”
Well I don’t subscribe to that notion. Yes, there are undeniable realities to my disability and living life with it. But social realities, and the place in the world of those with disabilities and those who use wheelchairs are dynamic forces. None of these realities are static. Just as certain things didn’t exist, rights didnt exist, for handicapped individuals at one point in time in recent history, these issues that I bring up are capable of being affected. Capable of being changed. Awareness is a huge part of that. Most people would (and do) change their behavior if they were simply aware of the possible implications of not doing so. But it’s got to start somewhere.
If I was about to shit my pants, I’d say something to the guy in the handicapped stall. “Hey, I’m handicapped and I need that stall, please!” And if that guy was me, I’d haul my pants up super quick and vacate the stall. We’re not all insensitive assholes.
My point is that that we all have inconveniences. If if go to the restroom and all the stalls are taken when I really need to shit super quick, that sucks. As bad for me as it is for you.
You must eat a lot of roughage. I wish I could take a dump on demand.
I still think there’s a perspective issue here. I think part of the issue here is that you see this chance for this need as being much higher than it is simply because you fall into that group of people. For many people, they have probably never run into such a situation, even though it’s something you probably face on a daily basis. Certainly, someone who uses a handicapped accessible stall just because they want a little more room when they’re in a situation where its quite likely a handicapped person might need it (say, they’re in a hospital), then they’re a jerk. But I don’t think it’s always that cut and dry. Let me provide a real life situation.
I’ve been a member at my gym for over 10 years. In that time, I have NEVER seen anyone parked in the handicapped spots when entering or exiting nor have I ever seen anyone who is apparently handicapped while in the gym, and I’m quite the gym rat (I’m there 10-11 hours a week, so that’s a pretty substantial sample over 10 years). In the men’s locker room, there are two stalls, one of which is handicapped accessible; however, the non-handicapped one is so small that the one time I stepped into it when both urinals were in use, my shoulders literally touched both walls, and with the toilet seat cover dispenser and toilet paper dispenser, I was even more cramped and it was very uncomfortable to use. There is also a unisex, single-occupancy, handicapped-accessible bathroom in the weight area which is very convenient, whereas the men’s locker room is on the other side of the gym (I have no idea why they designed it that way).
Now, given that scenario, am I an inconsiderate jerk if I use the unisex handicapped accessible bathroom to pee, given that I’m not in there for more than 2 minutes, that I’ve never seen a handicapped person in the gym, and that I’d have to walk all the way across the gym and back to leave it accessible? I would think that that it’s not unreasonable to put my convenience above a miniscule chance at a maximum of a 2 minute wait for someone who really might need that accessibility. What do you say?
Or a second circumstance, imagine I need to poop while I’m there. I wouldn’t use the single-occupancy bathroom since, handicapped issues aside, it’s clearly inconveniencing others to tie it up for more than a couple minutes. Given that I literally barely fit into the normal stall and am extremely uncomfortable when in it, and that that unisex bathroom is also available, albeit on the other side of the gym, and that if someone needed it, I’d suck it up finish up ASAP, isn’t my comfort in that situation worth that miniscule chance that someone might have to wait 5 minutes or go to the other side of the gym?
My only point in those examples is that I think the convenence for me is greater than simply “I want more space” even though I don’t strictly need it, and the potential affect on someone who might strictly need it is virtually nil. I’d honestly be shocked if anyone, even you, thought I was being a jerk in either scenario. And yet, I’m still using something handicapped-accessible when I don’t strictly need to.
In short, I do think that there are times when convenience outweighs that chance at delaying someone who needs it, and I think my real life scenarios are good examples of when, and why you should reserve your ire for more deserving causes than this.
I’ve never seen any kind of bathroom stall on a kayak, so…
No, I agree, there are of course circumstances where my argument would be silly, I acknowledge this. That is why I stress the word “awareness”. A blanket “rule” regarding the stalls wouldn’t be appropriate, for situations just like the ones you’ve highlighted. I guess I would want it to apply to establishments serving the general public at large, such as malls or event centers or stadiums or the like. You know, large-scale establishments that don’t cater to any one particular demographic or office places which don’t employ any disabled people. And obviously places which DO cater to the disabled, such as the gym I am now a member of, I would want such a “suggestion” to be in place. These are all very early-stage ideas at this point, nothing more. So I welcome dialogue such as this, it only helps to further clarify the issue. However, the issue needs to be addressed in some way. It’s not just my perspective that has shaped my feelings on the matter. Far from it. It is also the input and the ire from countless other disabled people who have shared their stories with me (and many times these stories are humiliating for the person telling them). Just because I am willing to stand up (harty har har) and speak up about it DOES NOT mean my disabled peers feel any less strongly about it than I do. They simply don’t (for whatever reason, fear, timidity, hopelessness, etc.) speak up.
I think you are willingly misunderstanding where I am coming from.
Of course everyone’s not an “insensitive asshole”. But there are plenty of them out there. What does that have to do with anything? So just because NOT EVERYBODY would do something, there should be nothing done about the people who WOULD? That’s a winning argument.
And let’s be real here; do you honestly think, based on the reactions from this board alone, that me sitting outside an occupied stall saying, “c’mon, hurry up, I need to use that stall!” would result in ANYTHING other than the person in the stall becoming defensive and pissed off at being hurried? I don’t want to track down all the posts but some have been to the effect of “geez, don’t park your chair outside the stall and go get security!” Or whatever. Now, maybe A FEW decent people may try and hurry up with their business but still that is someone taking a shit. That, especially when you are trying not to unload in your own pants, can still take 5minutes too long. 5 minutes too long staring at empty toilets.
My ironical meter[sup]TM[/sup] just broke.
Oh please, Ive taken into account every serious proposal and consideration offered up. The evolution of my stance on the issue should be proof of this.
Yes, you were dragged kicking and screaming after 100+ posts into a semi-reasonable position. Then you go off on a tantrum if someone again posts something you don’t agree with. Two steps forward, three steps back.
Seriosly, anothe vote for “be glas you aren’t a woman.” We regularly wait in long lines when there are plenty of free stalls. And there isn’t even any physical reason we can’t use them! Imagine if you were acty forbidden from using standard stalls! As a woman whi wears simple clothes and never has to deal with mensteral products in public bathrooms (thanks DivaCup) I bet I wait more than you for even less reason.
But who cares? It’s a couple minutes out of my day.
Anyway, you catch more flies with sugar than vinigar. Giving people what they want is going to be better than denying them what they want. I would ajitate for more changing stalls.
To be fair, the people in the hypothetical stall don’t actually know you so your chances of success are much higher than they are here.
Oh, are you shouting at everyone again?
All kidding aside, kayakers (especially those going ocean) typically carry a urinal device on board. Take a leak without leaving your seat!
Good points. I’d like to hear more after you’re done sleeping it off.
I know. Even sven and I rarely see eye to eye but that post actually worried me. You ok, Sven? That was more typos than I’ve ever seen you make.