# The hard part of money laundering **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 19, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654 "2021-06-19T23:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/101 "2021-06-23T13:31:37Z")
I think there was a [hotel](https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Coin-washer-keeps-Westin-St-Francis-change-shiny-2518445.php) in San Francisco that would clean your change for you as part of their services. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/102 "2021-06-23T13:36:22Z")
> [@cincinnatus](#): > > You have a limited number of washing machine, and limited time the place is open. Some arithmetic reveals a maximum income possible, and a maximum income possible for related services. Sometimes there’s a whole network of shady businesses that supply fake and inflated invoices to each other. The laundrymat may be ordering “new” washing machines, having repairs done, doing the laundry for businesses, etc. where all the businesses are involved with money laundering. The laundrymat is paying inflated prices for equipment they never receive, they are billed for expensive repairs that aren’t actually done, they receive piles of cash to wash a few bags of tablecloths from a restaurant, etc. All of those are opportunities to slip some illicit cash into a legitimate cash stream. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/103 "2021-06-23T13:45:29Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Sure but that doesn’t seem to involve money laundering, since you’re moving money from one bank account to another. It doesn’t, and the pot growers aren’t exactly “laundering” money because what they’re doing isn’t illegal at least at the state level, and they’re (theoretically) paying all taxes on it. It’s just that because their business is not recognized by the federal government and so for liability reasons banks that operate at a federal level won’t take money that comes from the pot industry; once the money is coming from a different source, there is no issue, and this process doesn’t have to be hidden. Money laundering is like trying to do that without anyone knowing you did. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/105 "2021-06-23T15:19:54Z")
Right- all of this is above board; it’s just necessary because those businesses are forbidden from engaging in the banking system like any normal business because of a mismatch between Federal and state law. It’s money laundering, but in the most technical of ways; “traditional” money laundering is intended to camouflage and legitimize ill-gotten money and let it be inserted into the financial world as legitimate money. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/106 "2021-06-23T16:28:47Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > In Colorado, and possibly in other states where cannibus is legal, we are seeing cannibus companies take their profits, which cannot be deposited into national or state banks, due to federal laws, and buy residential real estate for cash. In DC this problem is solved at the point of sale. It is not illegal to have pot but it is still illegal to sell it. So shops sell “artwork” and gift joints or edibles, etc, with every sale. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/107 "2021-06-23T18:21:49Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Almost a hundred replies and nobody has made a crack yet that the coins are the hard part of laundering money? Those guys who steal lots of coins from vending machines and the like are actually kind of impressive. Coins, in bulk, are goddamn heavy! I once saw a coin delivery at a bank, and the guys from the armored car were having a hell of a time getting their handcart up a single step to get it into the bank, and the box they were trying to move wasn’t even all that big. These guys routinely stealing thousands in quarters are really earning their pay! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/108 "2021-06-23T18:51:26Z")
[Nearly 50 years ago, there was a big bank robbery on the outskirts of the Los Angeles metro area.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_California_Bank_burglary) The robbers reportedly buried most of the cash rather than trying to launder it. Feds were tipped off regarding locations of caches of cash, then checked the serial numbers against those missing from the vault. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/109 "2021-06-23T20:22:02Z")
I actually specifically remember the detail from that case where the FBI found the safe house, but couldn’t find any evidence at all until they discovered that one of the thieves forgot to press the start button the dishwasher on their way out. The dirty dishes had all kinds of fingerprints all over them. I still think about that when I start my own dishwasher, despite my lack of criminal activities. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/110 "2021-06-23T20:24:52Z")
I just saw the movie based on that bank heist. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/111 "2021-06-24T03:11:47Z")
The culprits of the October 1997 Loomis Fargo robbery in North Carolina were largely caught because of foolish spending. One suspect went from living in a trailer park to buying a luxury home and a sports car with cash. And another suspect directly asked a teller at a bank how much they could deposit without triggering a report --which the teller found suspicious and caused her to fill out a suspicious activities report mentioned above. Not the most brilliant suspects. They made a movie loosely based on the case: > **[Masterminds (2016 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterminds_(2016_film))** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Masterminds is a 2016 American crime comedy film based on the October 1997 Loomis Fargo robbery in North Carolina. Directed by Jared Hess and written by Chris Bowman, Hubbel Palmer and Emily Spivey, the film stars Zach Galifianakis, Owen Wilson, Kristen Wiig, Kate McKinnon, Leslie Jones and Jason Sudeikis. > It premiered in Los Angeles on September 26, 2016 and was theatrically released in the United States on September 30, 2016, by Relativity Eu... ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/112 "2021-06-24T04:08:35Z")
Maybe they do their business on eBay? The one person I have known personally who got caught laundering money (LONG story made short) had Rubbermaid totes full of marijuana at his house when he got busted, and authorities found more than $100,000 in cash in his modest home when it was swept. What got them in trouble was that they were selling THC/CBD edibles that were made in their own kitchen, which was hardly commercial-grade, let alone certified. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/113 "2021-06-24T04:11:35Z")
Since you mentioned provenance, I’ve always found this story even more interesting than the triple homicide that preceded it. > **[Fate of missing O'Hair's coins revealed - UPI Archives](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1999/07/21/Fate-of-missing-OHairs-coins-revealed/4855932529600/)** > > The FBI at San Antonio shed new light on the case of missing atheist activist Madalyn Murray O'Hair and two adult children when it revealed that a gang of... ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/114 "2021-06-24T04:18:50Z")
I have a Facebook friend (HS classmate) who is a Realtor in the Denver area. The price of housing there is mind-boggling. I also heard that some legal-marijuana entities were going to use legal loopholes to form a credit union. Any truth in that? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/115 "2021-06-24T10:08:03Z")
I was just reading about the introduction of a new, plastic £50 note for the UK. Given how most of us have moved away from cash to cards I wondered what use it will have. Especially since many businesses won’t take a fifty anyway. The article went on to say that there is several billion Pounds worth of the old notes still out there somewhere and the suggestion was that a large part of this is tucked under mattresses. After following this thread, it occurred to me that when the old notes cease to be legal tender (as they will) anyone holding them will need to swap for the new ones. It is quite possible (probable?) that much of this money will be hard to account for. If I were to walk into my baby with a bag full of fifties, they may well flag me up as a possible money launderer/drug dealer. Is it possible that this is a deliberate ploy by the government? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/116 "2021-06-24T10:50:40Z")
If this was 1995, I could see some of these schemes working. But today, cash is almost non-existent. I would think it would be a dead giveaway to anyone who took the most cursory look at your books to see that you were the most successful, almost too successful laundromat, car wash, bar, restaurant in the area and you had such a massive amount of cash deposits. Some of the examples given above, like a $16k tip, or the little old lady who didn’t trust banks paying for a house in cash, if the government looked at it, they would see, yeah, that did happen, but it was a very odd thing for this business, so move along and nothing to see here. But if you are laundering money and have a continuous stream of extravagant cash tips and old ladies paying for houses in cash, then they know what you are up to and it is only a matter of time until they have the evidence to put you in prison. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/117 "2021-06-24T12:36:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But today, cash is almost non-existent. I would think it would be a dead giveaway to anyone who took the most cursory look at your books to see that you were the most successful, almost too successful laundromat, car wash, bar, restaurant in the area and you had such a massive amount of cash deposits. I don’t think that that is true. My evidence is the cash in my till, and the cash that people are always giving me. Sure, credit cards are the bulk of my sales, but on some days, cash makes up 25% or more of what I take in. Running an all day report from the day I opened, cash accounts for just under 10% of my revenue. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/118 "2021-06-24T12:40:10Z")
That’s fair enough and I don’t doubt you. But if I am laundering money, then my cash deposits will be in excess of yours and other similar businesses in the area. In 1995, the cash deposits would be nearly 100% so if I had more, then I could just say that I had a more successful business than you. Today, I would have to explain why I was not only more successful, but why my customers, to the exclusion of other customers such as yours, wanted to pay more in cash. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/119 "2021-06-24T12:53:16Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Is it possible that this is a deliberate ploy by the government? This was attempted in India 5 years ago > **[2016 Indian banknote demonetisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetisation)** > > Premiership > Budgets In that case it was a deliberate ploy, but it is not evident that the resulting chaos greatly inconvenienced said criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/120 "2021-06-24T13:03:44Z")
Hence the move to Bitcoin (or another e-currency like Monero). - [Monero emerges as crypto of choice for cybercriminals](https://www.ft.com/content/13fb66ed-b4e2-4f5f-926a-7d34dc40d8b6) (paywall) > **[Why some cyber criminals are ditching bitcoin for a cryptocurrency called monero](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/13/what-is-monero-new-cryptocurrency-of-choice-for-cyber-criminals.html)** > > Monero is considered more of a privacy token and allows cyber criminals greater freedom from tracking. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654/121 "2021-06-24T13:24:33Z")
The amusing thing is that many of my cash customers do so specifically so that I can avoid paying taxes on it. Which I turn around and put into my sales, and pay taxes on. (It does save me credit card fees, which is nice.) It _is_ possible, probable even, that my cash sales are a higher percentage than many of my competitors, but that is because I am actually declaring those cash sales, rather than pocketing the money tax free. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hard-part-of-money-laundering/944654.md?page=7)