# The Hawaiian Government Reorganization Act **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189 "2010-02-23T23:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/1 "2010-02-23T23:00:56Z")
Isn’t it a disaster ready to happen? A race-based government? Endless lawsuit challenging who is and isn’t Hawaiian? Can the US congress actually pass that law? I’m not a US citizen and much less a constitutional scholar, but it sounds like a mess ready to explode. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/2 "2010-02-24T00:15:11Z")
Link? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/3 "2010-02-24T00:17:18Z")
According to the Wikipedia [entry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akaka_Bill), it’s similar to contracts that the US government has with many tribes in the continental US. Those don’t seem to have destroyed the US. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/4 "2010-02-24T01:28:57Z")
Thanks, **Punoqllads**. **Ají de Gallina** – I have to ask: do you know _anything_ about Hawaiian history? If not, at least read the following three Wikipedia links: [The Great Mahele](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahele) (very short) [Hawaiian Homelands](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Homelands) (a bit longer) [Legal Status of Hawaii](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_Hawaii) (longest of the three) I lived there for 6 years and, while that gave me some minor familiarity with the issues, it also allowed me to appreciate their complexity and know that I’m in no way qualified to address them. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/5 "2010-02-24T02:01:04Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Thanks, **Punoqllads**. > > **Ají de Gallina** – I have to ask: do you know _anything_ about Hawaiian history? If not, at least read the following three Wikipedia links: > > [The Great Mahele](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahele) (very short) > [Hawaiian Homelands](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Homelands) (a bit longer) > [Legal Status of Hawaii](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_Hawaii) (longest of the three) > > I lived there for 6 years and, while that gave me some minor familiarity with the issues, it also allowed me to appreciate their complexity and know that I’m in no way qualified to address them. > **[Akaka Bill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akaka_Bill)** > > The Native Hawaiian Government Reorganization Act of 2009 S1011/HR2314 was a bill before the 111th Congress. It is commonly known as the Akaka Bill after Senator Daniel Akaka of Hawaii, who proposed various forms of this bill after 2000. > The bill proposes to establish a process for US federal recognition of Native Hawaiians similar to an Indian tribe. However, the bill prohibits indigenous Native Hawaiians from gaming and other benefits available to federally recognized Indian tribes. The 2009... I am familiar enough to be able to show my ideas. Comparing reservations to this law is at least extremely controversial. I understand that the role of the US government in the end of the monarchy and later anexation is complex to say the least. However you can understand that the bill would create an almost completely parallel government in Hawai’i and that it would be race based by law. Reservations by their very nature are more or less enclosed communities. Native Hawaiians (whatever that ends up meaning) are so intermingled to the state the creating another entity would be creating almost the 51st state. However ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/6 "2010-02-24T04:52:07Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > According to the Wikipedia [entry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akaka_Bill), it’s similar to contracts that the US government has with many tribes in the continental US. Those don’t seem to have destroyed the US. The tribes, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/7 "2010-02-24T04:55:12Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > I have to ask: do you know _anything_ about Hawaiian history? All I know is the last queen of Hawaii was Irish. Lilly O’Killarney. d&r ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/8 "2010-02-24T05:13:02Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > All I know is the last queen of Hawaii was Irish. > > Lilly O’Killarney. > > d&r I thought she was Jewish. She _did_ write “Aloha Oy”, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/9 "2010-02-24T16:35:18Z")
I forgot to include my main point and instead stopped with background – the things you’re worried about are happening _already_. Arguments about blood quanta (IIRC, it was 1/32 Hawaiian ancestry) and various native Hawaiian exceptions (e.g., land rights) have been occurring for decades. If this were a “disaster ready to happen”, I think it would have happened already. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > However you can understand that the bill would create an almost completely parallel government in Hawai’i and that it would be race based by law. > … > Native Hawaiians (whatever that ends up meaning) These two things may be made contradictory. That is, if “Native Hawaiian” is defined by residency at a certain point in time, it is then specifically not race-based. It was an argument I recall hearing often – Portugese, Chinese, etc. people who resided there way back when were excluded from OHA programs. But if the definition is expanded slightly, that issue can be resolved. (Of course, IIRC, there was also a problem with proving it, records not necessarily being kept very well.) It looks to me – based only the Wikipedia article – that that’s what they’re going for, while also including anyone who has previously qualified (which, yes, AIUI, was based on blood quanta). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/10 "2010-02-24T18:52:07Z")
If the “reorganized” (i.e., new) native government turns out to be just a land trust, then it doesn’t seem like any big deal. If it does take on some form of civil and criminal jurisdiction in parallel with the state of Hawai’i (and potentially other states in which native Hawai’ians reside), then it seems like there’s a lot of potential for confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/11 "2010-02-25T01:51:14Z")
Unnecessary. If you ask me all the tribal governments should be abolished and recognized as merely ethnic groups. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/12 "2010-02-25T05:45:12Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Unnecessary. If you ask me all the tribal governments should be abolished and recognized as merely ethnic groups. How do you feel about foreign countries, Curtis? ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/13 "2010-02-25T06:04:36Z")
Seems to me that the entire USA should be restructured to allow localities to have more self governance, similar to Native American Communities. There’s no reason that it should be perfectly legal for a tribe to open a Casino, yet 4 miles away (if the locals are okay with it) they can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/14 "2010-02-25T07:05:05Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > There’s no reason that it should be perfectly legal for a tribe to open a Casino, yet 4 miles away (if the locals are okay with it) they can’t. If the state allows such a thing, they can. But tribes are sovereign entities and not subject to state law. A town is under the jurisdiction of the state the town is in, while a tribal reservation isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/15 "2010-02-25T07:08:36Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > If the state allows such a thing, they can. But tribes are sovereign entities and not subject to state law. A town is under the jurisdiction of the state the town is in, while a tribal reservation isn’t. I understand, my point is that many states (although not all) represent the interest of selected areas, ignoring the more sparsely populated areas wishes in favor of pandering to the more densely populated ones. While this makes sense from a political standpoint, allowing more self governance to individual areas makes more sense in a “self determination” point of view. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/16 "2010-02-26T01:15:06Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > I understand, my point is that many states (although not all) represent the interest of selected areas, ignoring the more sparsely populated areas wishes in favor of pandering to the more densely populated ones. > > While this makes sense from a political standpoint, allowing more self governance to individual areas makes more sense in a “self determination” point of view. I’m not convinced of that. There’s a certain metropolis/hinterland interdependency dynamic, & the idea that the rural areas are a different area to be differently governed may not work. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawaiian-government-reorganization-act/530189/17 "2010-02-26T01:50:16Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > How do you feel about foreign countries, Curtis? Tribes are not foreign countries. It’s time for them to face history and just assimilate into American society. And the tribal reservations are either supported by casinos or crapholes (the worst being Pine Ridge).