# The Hawkishness of Hillary Clinton **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893 "2016-04-23T12:56:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/21 "2016-04-25T14:55:37Z")
Hillary Clinton is the most hawkish candidate because she has been in the executive branch the longest. It is just human nature that when you are handed the worlds biggest hammer, things start to look like nails. Look at Barry O, he got elected on the basis of his opposition to the Iraq war and then he repeats all the same mistakes in Libya. Because of this I don’t separate candidates into hawks and doves but rather whether they think strategically or will just play whack a mole. I have not seen any real strategic thinking other than Trump and I think the problem he is addressing is the cost of the military and not the actual people who want to kill us. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/22 "2016-04-25T15:56:15Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Hillary Clinton is the most hawkish candidate because she has been in the executive branch the longest. It is just human nature that when you are handed the worlds biggest hammer, things start to look like nails. Look at Barry O, he got elected on the basis of his opposition to the Iraq war and then he repeats all the same mistakes in Libya. > Because of this I don’t separate candidates into hawks and doves but rather whether they think strategically or will just play whack a mole. I have not seen any real strategic thinking other than Trump and I think the problem he is addressing is the cost of the military and not the actual people who want to kill us. The biggest mistake of Iraq was getting thousands of Americans killed for nothing. Whether the Libya policy was a mistake or not, at least it didn’t get thousands of Americans killed, which is _by far_ the worst part of the Iraq war. Libya might have been a mess, but it was a tiny, miniscule fraction of the mess that was the Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/23 "2016-04-25T15:56:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But you go to the election with the candidate you have, not the candidate you wish you had. Plus, she’s a known known. 😉 oooh- talk Rummy to me, baby! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/24 "2016-04-25T16:00:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Look at Barry O, he got elected on the basis of his opposition to the Iraq war and then he repeats all the same mistakes in Libya. Libya wasn’t nearly as disastrous as Iraq, precisely because he did avoid the same mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/25 "2016-04-25T16:03:10Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > I have not seen any real strategic thinking other than Trump and I think the problem he is addressing is the cost of the military and not the actual people who want to kill us. Wait, whoa, huh? Back up… You might want to elaborate a bit on that line, because it sounds like you’re saying that you’re seeing Trump as a strategic thinker. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/26 "2016-04-25T17:48:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Friend **adaher** appears to have gone through all the stages and blasted right through “acceptance” into a Panglossian reconfiguration: Hillary is _really_ conservative, therefore, when she wins, the Republicans win! … Sad to say, he’s right that she’s a conservative. But the Republicans aren’t anymore, they’ve crossed into the Batshit Crazy Twilight Zone. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/27 "2016-04-25T20:08:02Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Wait, whoa, huh? Back up… You might want to elaborate a bit on that line, because it sounds like you’re saying that you’re seeing Trump as a strategic thinker. Trump has a strategy, he is an isolationist. He wants to charge our allies to provide a defense, they will refuse, and he will call the troops back home. I don’t think he has thought the consequences of isolationism through, he just looks at the money spent and thinks foreign policy is not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/28 "2016-04-25T20:58:04Z")
Hillary’s belligerence & demonstrated willingness to wage war against the express directives of Congress is a sore point for a lot of people. These aren’t partisan Democrats, nor soccer mom swing voters, but the sort of people who denounced George W. Bush, and they are people without whom the Democrats are unlikely to win either the Presidency or Congress. Not that an old Trotskyist is a great candidate, but if Hillary really does have the nomination sewn up, then we will _very probably_ have a GOP President, and Congress, next year. Sorry,\*\* kaylasdad.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/29 "2016-04-25T21:08:08Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Trump has a strategy, he is an isolationist. He wants to charge our allies to provide a defense, they will refuse, and he will call the troops back home. **I don’t think he has thought the consequences of isolationism through** , he just looks at the money spent and thinks foreign policy is not worth it. The bolded part is why it isn’t strategic thinking. If that qualified as strategic thinking, so would Cruz’s ‘make the desert glow’ nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/30 "2016-04-25T21:23:10Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Not that an old Trotskyist is a great candidate, but if Hillary really does have the nomination sewn up, then we will _very probably_ have a GOP President, and Congress, next year. Sorry,\*\* kaylasdad.\*\* Republicans winning the White House is [paying better than 2:1](https://www.predictit.org/Market/1296/Which-party-will-win-the-2016-US-Presidential-election) at PredictIt. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/31 "2016-04-26T06:47:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Libya wasn’t nearly as disastrous as Iraq, precisely because he did avoid the same mistakes. No, he just changed our policy from “You broke it, you bought it” to “you broke it, now whistle and walk away and pretend you didn’t do it.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/32 "2016-04-26T09:42:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, he just changed our policy from “You broke it, you bought it” to “you broke it, now whistle and walk away and pretend you didn’t do it.” Not really, but even if it were true, this is an infinitely better policy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/33 "2016-04-26T10:13:36Z")
For us, maybe. I’m not sure why you don’t just support Trump-style isolationism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/34 "2016-04-26T10:33:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > For us, maybe. I’m not sure why you don’t just support Trump-style isolationism. Are you serious? The wall? Banning Muslims? Do you really see no difference? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/35 "2016-04-26T10:57:40Z")
He’d probably consider foreign problems to be foreign problems. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/36 "2016-04-26T11:27:00Z")
There is no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/37 "2016-04-26T11:53:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He’d probably consider foreign problems to be foreign problems. Beyond “build the wall” and “ban Muslims”, he has no consistent policy at all. Nothing close. I think he’d probably consider whatever the hell he feels like, and this could change every day. Why do you say silly things like asking me why I don’t support Trump’s foreign policy? Wouldn’t a tiny bit of thought have told you that this was ridiculous? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/38 "2016-04-26T16:18:18Z")
I don’t care about Clinton’s hawkish views, she’ll still be far better than any Republican ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/39 "2016-04-26T16:47:34Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > I don’t care about Clinton’s hawkish views, she’ll still be far better than any Republican I do care about Clinton’s hawkish views, but she’s far more skilled and nuanced than the “precision carpet bombing” and “hey, let’s start a war with Iran because t3h EVUL” strategy of the other side. So she’s more likely to start a war than Sanders, but far less likely to fuck it up than Cruz or Trump. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893/40 "2016-04-26T17:03:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I do care about Clinton’s hawkish views, but she’s far more skilled and nuanced than the “precision carpet bombing” and “hey, let’s start a war with Iran because t3h EVUL” strategy of the other side. > > So she’s more likely to start a war than Sanders, but far less likely to fuck it up than Cruz or Trump. What gives you this idea? She has been involved in the run up to two wars. She voted for the Iraq war and then went it didn’t turn out the way she wanted she voted against the surge for political reasons. As Secretary of State she was one of the main people pushing for the war in Libya and then showed no skill in managing as it has descended into chaos. I see no reason to think Hillary will be competent at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hawkishness-of-hillary-clinton/752893.md?page=3)