# The healthcare question never asked **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549 "2017-06-21T16:30:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/1 "2017-06-21T16:30:56Z")
A recent [essay](http://www.stonekettle.com/2017/06/the-right-question.html) by Jim Wright, a favorite writer of mine, pointed out that in all the healthcare debates this obvious question is never asked or answered. Instead we debate around the issue with details of politics, implementation, morality, economics etc. Jim points out that we may well not want to deal with the answer to the question. So, fellow dopers, the question is a simple Yes or No. What is your answer? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/2 "2017-06-21T16:34:53Z")
I thought the idea whether healthcare was a right or a privilege was one of the basic points of the debate and informed the opinions of people on how to tackle it. My view is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/3 "2017-06-21T16:43:39Z")
It is a right in the same way as education is a right. I see them as pretty much identical in terms of societal benefit ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/4 "2017-06-21T16:46:42Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > It is a right in the same way as education is a right. I see them as pretty much identical in terms of societal benefit Me too. Or having a fire department standing by if you need one. Doesn’t matter if you call it a “right” or not, but it’s a basic governmental function. Life health care could be. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/5 "2017-06-21T17:00:00Z")
Yes, but more than that it is a question of does a nation have the wealth to make Healthcare a right. It’s be nice if Healthcare were a right in India, but they have a per capita income of about $1500. Things like Healthcare, universal education, democracy, fighting pollution tend to occur as a nation grows wealthy. I think most nations implement universal. Health care when their per capita income hits 10k or higher. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/6 "2017-06-21T17:05:36Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Yes, but more than that it is a question of does a nation have the wealth to make Healthcare a right. > > It’s be nice if Healthcare were a right in India, but they have a per capita income of about $1500. Things like Healthcare, universal education, democracy, fighting pollution tend to occur as a nation grows wealthy. I think most nations implement universal. Health care when their per capita income hits 10k or higher. What is the per capita income of the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/7 "2017-06-21T17:10:01Z")
SOME LEVEL of healthcare ought to be provided to the extent a society can afford to do so. The poll question is too broad to be answered. Ought every person have the right to not have governments spew toxins into their immediate air/water/food without enabling them to relocate? You betcha. Food, housing, safety are - in part - healthcare issues. Does every preemie/substance abuser/old person have a right to organ transplants? Uh-uh. I would say that the provision of basic healthcare to as many of its citizens as possible ought to be one of the primary functions of a society. Personally, tho, I would probably advocate for providing the most generally needed, lowest cost care first, before providing individuals with costly heroic measures. HEard something on NPR a while back, saying the Gates and Buffett foundations have saved more lives worldwide than anyone else, by focusing on the broadest, lowest cost therapies. Things like providing mosquito nets to reduce malaria. The contrasted the (IIRC) $30k cost of training a blind person and service dog, compared to how many peoples’ blindness could be prevented by simple measures in developing countries. We could use a lot more nutritional/exercise training, counseling and education, instead of treating the joint/pulmonary/cardiovascular/diabetic complaints of obese smokers with lousy diet/exercise habits. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/8 "2017-06-21T17:15:33Z")
Yes, but with caveats. Yes, everyone who breaks a leg should be treated - citizen, illegal immigrant, rich, can’t pay a dime, etc. But I am uncomfortable with the idea that someone is compelled to serve someone else because it’s the latter’s “right.” By this logic, if every doctor, nurse, and medical professional in America suddenly resigned today, they’d be violating the rights of everyone else by doing so, since America has a “right” to their services. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/9 "2017-06-21T17:16:51Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > A recent [essay](http://www.stonekettle.com/2017/06/the-right-question.html) by Jim Wright, a favorite writer of mine, pointed out that in all the healthcare debates this obvious question is never asked or answered. [Never asked?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=827569) [Like, never never?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=608823) [Seems like it’s asked quite a bit.](https://www.google.com/search?q=is+healthcare+a+right&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS749US749&oq=is+healthcare+a+right&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.381j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) Unless you are a doctor, healthcare is a service provided by others. I don’t see how a person can have a right to the services performed by others. I voted no. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/10 "2017-06-21T17:19:31Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Unless you are a doctor, healthcare is a service provided by others. I don’t see how a person can have a right to the services performed by others. I voted no. Well, if you’re charged with a crime, in the US, you have a “right” to a lawyer to represent you. That’s a service performed by others. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/11 "2017-06-21T17:25:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Doesn’t matter if you call it a “right” or not… And that’s why the question doesn’t get asked that often. It’s not helpful. It doesn’t provide any information as to what the healthcare system should look like, or what should be covered. It doesn’t even indicate whether or not it should be a governmental function (I may think free speech is a basic human right, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the government should pay for my blog or buy me a printer). For similar reasons, referring to the details of implementation as “arguing around the issue” strikes me as unproductive. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/12 "2017-06-21T17:38:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Well, if you’re charged with a crime, in the US, you have a “right” to a lawyer to represent you. That’s a service performed by others. I do think this is the strongest counterfactual to my assertion. The sixth amendment right to counsel to include appointed counsel was recognized gradually beginning in 1932. Only after 1963 was this incorporated against the states. And even then, this is an enumerated right. Healthcare does not enjoy the same protections. Medicare is the method among others, that Congress has elected to provide for the care of the indigent, as an entitlement, not a right. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/13 "2017-06-21T17:45:13Z")
Nothing can be a “right” if it imposes an obligation on somebody else. The most fundamental right is the right to be left alone. That is, not to be killed, kidnapped, conscripted, or have your stuff taken away from you. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/14 "2017-06-21T17:47:13Z")
I’m with **Bone** here. I’m pretty skeptical of positive rights in general, as distinct from the right not to have the state do something to you (or have the state condone other people doing it to you). But I’m especially skeptical of healthcare as a right, since it is so broad a category as to be almost meaningless. I’m also unclear on why it matters, politically. Aren’t you effectively just using “right” here as a stand-in for “really good thing”? If not, what do you mean by the term? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/15 "2017-06-21T17:49:24Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Well, if you’re charged with a crime, in the US, you have a “right” to a lawyer to represent you. That’s a service performed by others. Well, yes, _if we’re prosecuting you,_ we offer you an attorney as part of the package deal. I always figured it’s like the bit where a guy challenges you to a duel, and, as part of the challenge, produces an ornate wooden case containing matched weapons: you take one because he takes one, and then he tries to kill you; but he’s being downright _sporting_ about it, is the thing. ---
**Author:** ![greenmario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/97f17d/32.png) [@greenmario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenmario)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/16 "2017-06-21T18:07:53Z")
Not a right, for the reasons Bone described. IMO a right is something that an individual exercises independently. If you get stranded on a deserted island and die it wasn’t due to any human rights violation. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/17 "2017-06-21T18:08:44Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Well, if you’re charged with a crime, in the US, you have a “right” to a lawyer to represent you. That’s a service performed by others. Since the same government that charges you with a crime, gives you a public defender, I think a better analogy might be if the government says that if you want to be a \*plaintiff \*and \*accuse \*someone of a crime, that you have the right to have a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/18 "2017-06-21T18:14:29Z")
If it is a basic human right shouldn’t it be a basic right for every human? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/19 "2017-06-21T18:22:25Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I’m also unclear on why it matters, politically. Aren’t you effectively just using “right” here as a stand-in for “really good thing”? If not, what do you mean by the term? In a political discussion, a right is something that requires action (or occasionally inaction) from the government. There are plenty of really good things that we don’t require the government to provide or protect. If something is defined as a right, that means there is a government responsibility to ensure that it is provided or not taken away. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549/20 "2017-06-21T18:47:36Z")
rather than a basic human right I think it falls under the category of bi-laws. A wealth enough nation may vote to include healthcare. There are lots of good reasons not to include healthcare, Slackers will take advantage of free healthcare while working illegally under the table earning money and not paying taxes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-healthcare-question-never-asked/789549.md?page=2)