# The Hearthstone Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 28, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172 "2014-04-28T07:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 117
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2321 "2017-08-17T12:20:41Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve gotten terrible at arena lately and I don’t know why. I used to average 4-5 wins a run with 7+ win runs not being uncommon, but over my last 50 I would guess my average win rate is 2-2.5. I don’t think I’ve gotten any worse, so I guess either other players have gotten better or only the players who are good at arena stick around. > > Any general advice for improving my game? Should I be using one of those arena value calculators to draft? Which one? Heartharena on Overwolf. It’s just too good not to use. Tracks individual card value, modified by synergies and your curve and your deck’s basic archetype (it won’t be too specific, but it can generally tell an aggro from a midrange from a control from an attrition deck, and it won’t try to give your aggro warlock a DOOM! or a Twisting Nether). Then it tracks your deck with cards in hand mid-game as well. Like, even Kripparian uses it. That’s how good it is. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2322 "2017-08-18T02:14:54Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Heartharena on Overwolf. It’s just too good not to use. Tracks individual card value, modified by synergies and your curve and your deck’s basic archetype (it won’t be too specific, but it can generally tell an aggro from a midrange from a control from an attrition deck, and it won’t try to give your aggro warlock a DOOM! or a Twisting Nether). Then it tracks your deck with cards in hand mid-game as well. Like, even Kripparian uses it. That’s how good it is. You can also manually enter you options into the webpage and use your regular deck tracker. I do that since I don’t want to install Overwolf. Treat any score HA gives within ~5 as a tie; and don’t be afraid to go against its advice. I do 2-5 times a draft. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2323 "2017-08-18T08:52:11Z")
Why is the 2 mana prince that gives your whole deck 1+1 not awesome? Just not enough deck archetypes that take advantage of overstatted minions? Too slow, since it’s only deck and not hand? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2324 "2017-08-18T09:13:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Why is the 2 mana prince that gives your whole deck 1+1 not awesome? Just not enough deck archetypes that take advantage of overstatted minions? Too slow, since it’s only deck and not hand? I’ve seen it played in Zoolock, but Zoolock apparently isn’t that good (although Kripp loves it). The decks that gain a lot from all the minions in their deck getting +1/+1 are generally the same aggressive decks that _want_ to play a lot of 2-drops. I mean, let’s look at what people are losing for that +1/+1, and which cards aggro decks would really want to run. Almost every aggro deck: - Dire Wolf Alpha - Knife Juggler - Acidic Swamp Ooze - Crazed Alchemist (meta-dependent) Warlock: - Darkshire Librarian - Drain Soul Warrior: - Fiery War Axe - Bloodsail Raider - Heroic Strike - Execute Shaman: - Jade Claws - Maelstrom Portal - Devolve - Flametongue Totem - Primalfin Totem - Rockbiter Weapon Rogue: - Sap - Eviscerate - Undercity Huckster - Razorpetal Lasher Priest: - Literally anything that could make any aggro or combo priest build even remotely worthwhile Paladin: - Equality - Grimestreet Outfitter - Hydrologist (Honestly if there was a decent Divine Favor or Elemental Buff Pally aggro deck, I could almost see it running Prince Keleseth. Maybe I should try that out) Mage: - Frostbolt - Medivh’s Valet - Sorcerer’s Apprentice - Primordial Glyph - Arcanologist Hunter: - All traps - Scavenging Hyena - _ **The Best Hunter Card** _ - Kindly Grandmother Druid: - Power of the Wild (trust me, this alone makes Keleseth basically unplayable in aggro druid) - Mark of Y’Shaarj So it’s basically just one or two classes which could realistically run Keleseth aggro decks, and even then he’s just way too slow outside of Warlock. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2325 "2017-08-18T09:21:05Z")
There are no midrange decks that get value from oversttated minions like dragon priest? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2326 "2017-08-18T09:39:12Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > There are no midrange decks that get value from oversttated minions like dragon priest? Even if they did, the list of cards you’d have to give up to make Keleseth worthwhile is pretty substantial, and if you draw him late in topdeck mode, he’s basically a crappy 2/2. The reason he’s good in Zoolock is because individual card quality basically doesn’t matter - you’re drawing most of your deck anyways, so hitting a bum 2-drop is almost never a big deal, and you’re getting way more value out of his effect than you would otherwise. As said, handbuff elemental paladin might be good with Keleseth, but you’d have to give up… Well, the handbuff part, for the most part. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2327 "2017-08-18T20:15:40Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > - _ **The Best Hunter Card** _ Wait…what’s the Best Hunter Card again? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2328 "2017-08-19T17:54:20Z")
I think Defias Cleaner is my favorite Arena card now - feels so good to drop an almost-Boulderfist Ogre and at the same time wipe out a Paladin’s Spikeridged Steed turn. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2329 "2017-08-21T07:17:04Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Wait…what’s the Best Hunter Card again? Crackling Razormaw, the 3/2 beast for 2 with “Battlecry: Adapt a beast”. Almost single-handedly made midrange hunter halfway viable for a little while. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2330 "2017-08-22T11:45:35Z")
Was playing a little wild to get a quest done. Had a highlander deck. Put my Kazakus into play. No spell generation, wtf? Forgot that 2 turns earlier a warrior played Bronn+The Iron Juggernaut, putting 2 bombs into my deck. Every once in a while you get these totally unexpected interactions you’ve never seen. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2331 "2017-08-24T19:32:16Z")
I was more than a little disappointed with my first battle with the lich king. I smoked him Jade druid and had over 40 health + armor. I think that speaks more to the deck being awesome the anything else since my deathrattle jade Rouge got destroyed basically on turn 1 when he removed all spells from my deck. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2332 "2017-08-25T05:45:04Z")
Turns out shadow word: horror is a monster combined with this token meta. It can completely destroy my evolve shaman, and it’s probably a good counter for all the druid nonsense going on now if you can hit it early on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2333 "2017-08-28T03:09:00Z")
12th 12 win [run](http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/sh95ny). 🙂 It also happened to be one where I stuck closest to HearthArena’s drafting advice (3 different picks, all with pretty close values to the top pick). Not sure what that says about my drafting skill. 😛 MVP was [Righteous Protector](http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/62864-righteous-protector). With great support from [Steward of Darkshire](http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/33153-steward-of-darkshire). Making my early board unbelievably sticky and hard to clear so I almost always maintained something to Might/Kings/Portal/Steed and I activated the battlecry on Nesting Roc every time. Righteous protector is even better than I thought it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2334 "2017-08-28T11:07:06Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I was more than a little disappointed with my first battle with the lich king. I smoked him Jade druid and had over 40 health + armor. I think that speaks more to the deck being awesome the anything else since my deathrattle jade Rouge got destroyed basically on turn 1 when he removed all spells from my deck. Druid and Priest are pretty straightforward. Meta Jade Druid will usually do the trick pretty well, and Lyra/Silence priest both have absolutely no problems. Mage is… _doable_ if you can get a secret out early with Illuminator and Mad Scientist, and being able to drop a Molten Giant helps. Also, Animated Armor really helps slow down the clock during the last phase, which gives you plenty of time to curbstomp the Lich King. I can’t figure out warlock. No matter what I do, I just have too tight of a margin by the time I hit the last phase, and I can’t get enough on the board to kill him fast enough. It doesn’t help that the only things that really help against the spirits are board nukes that hit both sides of the field - a turn 7 Doomsayer is pretty much as good as it gets, unfortunately. I get the feeling Zoo would be better than Reno, but I can’t run a decent Zoo deck in singleton. Warrior I have a similar problem. 100 armor is a lot to get through. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2335 "2017-08-28T22:24:32Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Heartharena on Overwolf. It’s just too good not to use. Tracks individual card value, modified by synergies and your curve and your deck’s basic archetype (it won’t be too specific, but it can generally tell an aggro from a midrange from a control from an attrition deck, and it won’t try to give your aggro warlock a DOOM! or a Twisting Nether). Then it tracks your deck with cards in hand mid-game as well. Like, even Kripparian uses it. That’s how good it is. Thanks for this suggestion. I used heartharena before, but stopped because I was too lazy to type in all the cards for the draft. This is perfect. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2336 "2017-08-29T18:09:56Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Druid and Priest are pretty straightforward. Meta Jade Druid will usually do the trick pretty well, and Lyra/Silence priest both have absolutely no problems. > > Mage is… _doable_ if you can get a secret out early with Illuminator and Mad Scientist, and being able to drop a Molten Giant helps. Also, Animated Armor really helps slow down the clock during the last phase, which gives you plenty of time to curbstomp the Lich King. > > I can’t figure out warlock. No matter what I do, I just have too tight of a margin by the time I hit the last phase, and I can’t get enough on the board to kill him fast enough. It doesn’t help that the only things that really help against the spirits are board nukes that hit both sides of the field - a turn 7 Doomsayer is pretty much as good as it gets, unfortunately. I get the feeling Zoo would be better than Reno, but I can’t run a decent Zoo deck in singleton. > > Warrior I have a similar problem. 100 armor is a lot to get through. 😕 I haven’t approached the warlock puzzle yet, but I got him on warrior with a taunt/alarmbot/big-summon deck. It isn’t critically important what the big summons are, so put in as many big legendaries as you want then fill it out with 8-10 cost summons. Don’t forget legacy cards. Mulligan hard for a cheap taunt (e.g stubborn gastropod) and the bot. If you don’t get this setup, you will lose hard but fast, so try again. I won with Kel’Thuzad as my second big drop. KT and an Obsidian Destroyer gave good board control. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2337 "2017-08-30T22:01:34Z")
This is a very silly brawl this week. Using encased in amber I summoned a turn 1 deathwing. I got turn one OTK’d by a druid with infestation and starfire who managed to draw like 8 cards. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2338 "2017-08-31T06:58:28Z")
Got my Arthas! Was especially proud of the mage win, where I figured out that [spoiler]kabal courier / counterspell actually worked - used quest/exodia mage for the actual win. Others: Hunter: dk rexxar with two scar and a nzoth - kept trying until I highrolled some beasts and then overwhelmed with nzoth value. No idea how you win this with no death knight. Warlock: some Reno build with lots of early/mid game guys. The 6/6 who gets you demons was a star. Priest: inner fire priest with shadow word horror for phase 2. Paladin: all-in murloc rush for a turn 5 kill Shaman : evolve with some eggs for ez 4/4 and 5/5s. Rogue: cthun with all the cthun plus guys and some random filler spells. Druid: jade (yawn) Warrior: alarm o bot as hooker chemical recommended (thanks)[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2339 "2017-09-02T15:17:00Z")
I got to rank 10 this season which is higher than I’ve been in probably over a year. I’ve been having fun with the evolve deathknight shaman I made, although druid is kinda ruining everything now so I don’t know if I’ll play much this month. Although waiting for spreading plague + call of the wild and then casting a devolve is immensely satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/2340 "2017-09-05T21:19:30Z")
[Balance changes](https://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/21029448/upcoming-balance-changes-update-91-9-5-2017) Innervate is part of the core identtiy of Druid. They shouldn’t nerf it (and make it the same as counterfeit coin except worse because druids have no combo) because their bad design of new druid cards making druid oppressive. Change those new oppressive cards instead and druid is fine. Fiery War Axe has always been super good but a warrior staple. Now it’s a worse Eaglehorn Bow. Not sure I see justification for this one - warrior needs it to be a weapon class and have something to do in early game for any control decks. Spreading plague at 6 mana will help but I don’t think a mana tweak is what’s needed. It basically shored up whatever weakness druids have and it was a terrible design. Sure, you can mana-nerf it simply to reduce the instances in which it has a dominating effect, but that’s the wrong way to approach it. No touches to ultimate infestation, either. We’re nerfing innervate, a card that’s been with druids from the very beginning and is class-defining, but we’re afraid to touch a card that’s been part of the game for a month? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172.md?page=116) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172.md?page=118)