# The Hearthstone Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 28, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172 "2014-04-28T07:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/501 "2015-01-20T23:08:51Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > I’ve never seen a Hearthstone developer state that as a design philosophy of theirs. I don’t see why a legendary can’t be better than a card of another rarity of the same cost. Legendaries are limited to one-per-deck so you’re paying a consistency price for using one. Being strictly better than the War Golem isn’t a problem only because the War Golem is underpowered (6/7 for 6 beats 7/7 for 7, both because 1 point of strength isn’t worth 1 mana and because 6 power is better than 7 power when everyone and their dog runs BGH). For regular commons, legendaries should be more complex but not more powerful. Every card should have a place in _some_ top tier decks. If a card is too weak to ever be the best choice for a slot, you fucked up. If a card is so strong it is always the best choice for a slot, you fucked up. And Doctor Boom is pretty close to being the second. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/502 "2015-01-20T23:15:58Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > If legendaries aren’t supposed to be straight upgrades to other cards, but rather unique effects, then having a card that’s the same cost as a War Golem, the same base stats, but also gives a very powerful effect on top of that is clearly unbalanced and against their game design philosophy, right? My point was more ‘passes the vanilla test’ is damning with really faint praise at the extremes of mana cost (ie. War Golem is terrible. The only way a a 7+ mana creature is going to be put in decks is to be noticeably better). At 8 mana, as you suggested, it likely would still get play. It just might be a bit too much of a nurf. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/503 "2015-01-20T23:33:06Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Every card should have a place in _some_ top tier decks. If a card is too weak to ever be the best choice for a slot, you fucked up. If a card is so strong it is always the best choice for a slot, you fucked up. And Doctor Boom is pretty close to being the second. I agree, but I also see it as a business proposition. If they don’t introduce cards that are significantly better than the ones that exist, then they won’t sell as much. From a purely business standpoint, it makes sense to have a card that is powerful enough to make people want to spend money to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/504 "2015-01-21T01:34:23Z")
> [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > My point was more ‘passes the vanilla test’ is damning with really faint praise at the extremes of mana cost (ie. War Golem is terrible. The only way a a 7+ mana creature is going to be put in decks is to be noticeably better). > > At 8 mana, as you suggested, it likely would still get play. It just might be a bit too much of a nurf. Actually, I highly doubt it will see play if it were 8 mana. At 8, you’re competing with things like Ragnaros, Grommash, KT, Sneeds. Of these, Rag and KT are probably overall outright better than Dr. Boom, and KT doesn’t get BGHed. Sure, I drop Boom on 7, but that’s because I don’t have anything better to do on 7 mana. If I had a choice between dropping Boom or Rag, I would probably always drop rag instead. There’s no bad time to drop Boom, but there’s never a best time either. It doesn’t really help you catch up, helps you win more but not as much as KT or Rag would, gets your opponent BGH value… meh. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/505 "2015-01-21T03:52:34Z")
I see they are hiring. Maybe they will hire somebody who knows how to design a balanced game. Apparently Hearthstone was a low-budget side project done by a small team and its success took them by surprise. It is certainly possible to design a balanced game; those who print their cards do it. These guys just seem to be in over their heads, constantly taking the easy way out by nerfing cards after release rather than doing the hard work of making sure they are ok beforehand. And I think the “make them pay to get the cards and then nerf them later” thing is almost certainly true – it’s a common evil in the F2P game industry. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/506 "2015-01-22T20:42:16Z")
That Feign Death: trigger all death rattles card is a killer. If you don’t draw well enough early to stop the flood or kill Sneed’s Old Shredder right away, you’re toast. I’m not sure I like the balance after GnG. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/507 "2015-01-22T21:52:45Z")
I have yet to face a feign death deck (although my playing this month is way down), but it seems like it’d be pretty great to me. It synergizes so well with the undertaker/deathrattle builds. You could easily have a nerubian egg, spider, and harvest golem up early in the game and drop that card. It seems like it’d be amazing. I’m guessing feign death doesn’t stack with Baron Rivendare, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/508 "2015-01-27T02:59:22Z")
Let me just say that if you’re running a deck with 2 mountain giants, Jaraxxus, Rags, 2 Healbots, and Dr. Boom, combined with a nice mech deck and you can’t get past level 14, you’re fucking stupider than a box of rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/509 "2015-01-27T03:27:02Z")
That’s… probably true. 😉 To be fair, it’s not completely intuitive to play mountain giants, and with so much BGH around. That said, some people make the worst plays. The other day, I was playing my “bounce” Rogue, with Coldlight Oracles (each play draws 2 cards), shadow step, vanish and sap to make the opponent burn cards. I play a coldlight and shadow step it (so he knows I have a coldlight in hand). He burns a card, so he decides to… play an acolyte of pain (draw a card when damaged). When I have a 1 damage dagger equipped. When I have at least one coldlight oracle in hand. WELL. Have more cards. Have all the cards. I hope you like cards. Too bad you can’t hold all of them though… ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/510 "2015-01-27T03:34:13Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > That’s… probably true. 😉 > > To be fair, it’s not completely intuitive to play mountain giants, and with so much BGH around. That said, some people make the worst plays. > > The other day, I was playing my “bounce” Rogue, with Coldlight Oracles (each play draws 2 cards), shadow step, vanish and sap to make the opponent burn cards. I play a coldlight and shadow step it (so he knows I have a coldlight in hand). He burns a card, so he decides to… play an acolyte of pain (draw a card when damaged). When I have a 1 damage dagger equipped. When I have at least one coldlight oracle in hand. > > WELL. > > Have more cards. Have all the cards. I hope you like cards. Too bad you can’t hold all of them though… I remember getting beat by one of those decks early. I’ve since learned to be wary anytime that Coldlight comes out early. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/511 "2015-01-27T23:08:35Z")
Undertaker nerf incoming. Only attack will be boosted in the future, which is the nerf that basically everyone asked for months ago. Shame they left it as a 1/2 instead of as a 1/3, which would make it still rather excellent since then it could survive some 2-drops. A lot of people seem to think aggro is done, but I don’t know about that. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/512 "2015-01-28T00:36:09Z")
It’s a cheaper micromachine now, basically. Which isn’t terrible, Coin+Defias used to be called OP. It’s a very significant nerf, though. It wasn’t really an aggro card before, its power was that it was super value. You were getting a 3/4 for 1 mana almost every game, a 1 mana card eating a 3 mana card and surviving wasn’t bad. Drop it before a belcher for a 1 mana 2/3 (3 health being outside of many removals), drop it before a Dr. Boom for a 1 mana 3/4 (that’s a spider tank!) Now, you can’t really use it to get card advantage, so it’s purely to the face, much like micromachine. And it’s far worse late game, as it’ll die to most incidental AOE. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/513 "2015-01-28T00:56:57Z")
Undertaker is what I refer to as a “bullshit card”. Eating 3 drops and keeping on trucking simply isn’t something a 1 drop should _do_. It could be different if it worked with an otherwise terrible mechanic, but Leper Gnome and Harvest Golem were already top tier cards on their own. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/514 "2015-01-28T11:24:15Z")
The undertaker nerf is deserved but kills my only viable decks. They should really create some sort of finisher as epic rather than legendary quality - the undertaker nerf does significant damage to the few very cheap decks that are good. I was just in a funny situation. Enemy had 6 hp, I had 3. I’m a shaman. He ended his turn with a full board. 8 low value units. He killed my board, except for a flametongue totem that he had intact. I’d already used my Leeroy to get him down to that 6hp, so I don’t think he was too worried about a charge attack. My only card is a bloodlust. And my draw… another bloodlust. I bloodlusted my flametongue totem twice, giving the 6 attack needed to finish him off. Quite a long, elaborate fight for board control too - I think we had 4-5 cards left at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/515 "2015-01-28T22:32:12Z")
Tweaked my deck a bit, got my first legendary (Antondias), and got up to level 12. Ran into a wall. Every deck I face has a combination of at least 3 of Kel’T, a Rags, Dr. Boom, and Ysera. For a while, it was nice playing and beating better decks, but the amount of cards needed to win at the higher levels is just sick. I wasn’t losing because I didn’t draw well (although I could have eked out a win getting really lucky), but I simply had no chance from the getgo. That was the incredibly frustrating part of starting the game without buying anything, trying to win against over-powered opponents, and now it’s rearing it’s ugly head again. So you higher ups, what deck are you using to remain competitive at the higher ranks? ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/516 "2015-01-29T00:58:03Z")
Lucky! I wish I had an Antonidas. Would go really well in my freeze mage. If you don’t have Alex, then freeze mage isn’t really viable for you, but you could try the mech mage + Antonidas. The basic idea is to hold on to the spare parts (especially the cloakfield!), since they count as spells, and turn 8, Antonidas + cloakfield + infinite fireballs. [Mech Mage Season 10 Legend #31 NA - Hearthstone Decks](http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/156858-mech-mage-season-10-legend-31-na) Quite cheap apart from the Antonidas, and mechs are generally worth experimenting with in many decks. People have taken that deck to legend, so you could too! (not really =p) I totally failed making it to legend this month, and with the second tabbykit due next week, I probably won’t be able to try again for a long time. I laddered to 3 with deathrattle priest ([Deathrattle Priest - Legend Top 16 EU - Hearthstone Decks](http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/146507-deathrattle-priest-legend-top-16-eu)) with a few tech choices of my own, but tilted all the way down to 7, where I’ve given up and am starting to play the decks I want to play, like Tinker’s oil HAHA Rogue ([[LEGEND]Keppada's Haha Tinkers - Hearthstone Decks](http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/164100-legend-keppadas-haha-tinkers)). ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/517 "2015-01-29T01:26:26Z")
I usually just play whatever class my quest requires. I just finished going 5-0 from rank 9 to 7 using mid-range Hunter, so that’s pretty strong. I suppose it helps that I had finished going 7 -\> 9 using some random midrange paladin 5-win quest deck. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/518 "2015-01-31T11:47:08Z")
A really annoying change in a recent patch seems to be that clicking the end turn button while the animations play no longer actually queues an end of your turn. The button press registers, it makes sound - it just doesn’t end your turn when the animation finishes. I usually hit the end turn button as the final animations play and alt tab to go do something else, and recently I find that I’ve been making my opponent sit there for 45 seconds because the turn didn’t end. Really annoying. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/519 "2015-01-31T12:58:28Z")
What classes are best for a mech deck? With the undertaker nerf I’m considering trying one. I just drew a paladin arena deck. I took 4 Truesilver Champions. Is that dumb? The value on them is kind of ridiculous. But then it will take me 8 whole turns after turn 4 to get full value from them. But I got ragnaros in the deck early on and I built the rest of the deck around mostly mid-tier taunt and control minions. Actually, my last card choice was between a target dummy, something almost as bad, and a 5th truesilver champion. I reflexively took the 5th truesilver champion before thinking about it. 5 of them in this deck. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/520 "2015-01-31T13:03:50Z")
Best mech deck right now is mech Mage, none of the other classes seem to have top tier mech decks right now. Mech rogue is also possible, I ran with it for a little bit, but it’s just not as consistent as mech Mage. Which is itself not that consistent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172.md?page=27)