# The Hearthstone Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 28, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172 "2014-04-28T07:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/981 "2015-10-13T21:11:24Z")
They’d have to invent a new mechanic/new code for it, but a saner change would’ve been “while your minions has 3 or less attack, it has charge” so that frothing berserkers wouldn’t have one turn kill charge, but you’d still be able to flood the board with patrons (although not attack that turn with inner rage / cruel taskmastered ones). I think that’d be a good halfway change that would get rid of the worst aspects of patron warrior without totally killing the deck. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/982 "2015-10-13T22:32:47Z")
Seems shitty to make such a huge change just before their big tournament. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/983 "2015-10-13T23:36:13Z")
Reading up a bit about it, it makes more sense that it’s actually a warsong commander nerf, not just a patron warrior nerf. A card like warsong commander limits where they can go with design. Every time they might want to design a novel minion with 3 attack or less, they’d have to think about what it could do in combination with charge, and restricts the sorts of units they could introduce. Charge is a rough mechanic to balance around in general. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/984 "2015-10-14T00:33:25Z")
Yeah, Ben Brode actually already hinted at it when he said that charge was a hard mechanic to balance. They’ve been a LOT more careful with the new charge cards, and I actually think the new charge cards are really interesting, like the charging 2/1 with divine shield. It’s like a combination removal spell and body, but buffable. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/985 "2015-10-14T02:11:28Z")
Ugh, just as I was getting good at Patron Warrior. RIP. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > They’d have to invent a new mechanic/new code for it, but a saner change would’ve been “while your minions has 3 or less attack, it has charge” so that frothing berserkers wouldn’t have one turn kill charge, but you’d still be able to flood the board with patrons (although not attack that turn with inner rage / cruel taskmastered ones). I think that’d be a good halfway change that would get rid of the worst aspects of patron warrior without totally killing the deck. “Flaccid charge”? No thanks. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/986 "2015-10-14T03:35:37Z")
Had a control warrior on the ropes and he pulled out a Wrynn with 2 sludge belchers and a Sylvanas. Rough. That card is so amazing, and I kind of want to try a control warrior deck, but I just don’t know if I have the cards for it. I guess maybe I do - Rag and Alex and Wrynn as a finisher - could I get by without Grom? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/987 "2015-10-14T07:41:44Z")
> [@](#): > > The following balance change will be made in an upcoming patch: > Warsong Commander now reads: Your Charge minions have +1 Attack. What a bunch of fucking idiots. If you’re going to nerf a card, at least nerf it in the most interesting way you can. Turning one of Warrior’s most distinctive cards into a worse Raid Leader is such a stupid way of doing things. Goodbye, Pirate Warrior. Goodbye, Murloc Warrior. Goodbye, Patron Warrior. If you don’t play Wallet Warrior with its 3-4 Legendaries, Warrior might as well not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/988 "2015-10-14T19:56:02Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > What a bunch of fucking idiots. If you’re going to nerf a card, at least nerf it in the most interesting way you can. Turning one of Warrior’s most distinctive cards into a worse Raid Leader is such a stupid way of doing things. > > Goodbye, Pirate Warrior. Goodbye, Murloc Warrior. Goodbye, Patron Warrior. If you don’t play Wallet Warrior with its 3-4 Legendaries, Warrior might as well not exist. I’ve had great success with Mech Warrior. Only 2 Epics (Fel Reavers) and 4 Rares (2x Screwjank Clunker and 2x Mortal Strike). Zero Legendaries. And, it’s pretty much the opposite of Wallet Warrior in terms of play style. Face, face, face! 2 x Cogmaster 2 x Warbot 2 x Win Axe 2 x Heroic Strike 2 x Annoy-o-Tron 2 x Mechwarper 2 x Spider Tank 1 x Tinkertown 2 x Death’s Bite 2 x Mortal Strike 2 x Kor’kron Elite 2 x Piloted Shredder 2 x Screwjank Clunker 2 x Arcanite Reaper 1 x Clockwork Knight 2 x Fel Reaver ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/989 "2015-10-14T23:32:25Z")
After strangely being stuck around level 14, I went on a streak of something like 12-1 and ended up at 8 or 9 with my tempo mage deck. How might I improve this deck? 1x Arcane Missiles 2x Mirror Image 2x Mana Wyrm 2x Flamecannon 1x Frostbolt 2x Unstable Portal 2x Mad Scientist 2x Sorceror’s Apprentice 1x Arcane Intellect 2x Mirror Entity 3x Flamewaker 2x Fireball 1x Polymorph 2x Water Elemental 1x Azure Drake 2x Flamestrike 1x Archmage Antonidus 1x Dr Boom 1x Ragnaros I was thinking of adding a sylvanas and maybe another arcane intellect. Not sure what I’d remove. Maybe a fireball. Suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/990 "2015-10-15T00:11:29Z")
Is there any point to trying to strategize this week’s Tavern Brawl. It seems so utterly random. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/991 "2015-10-15T01:09:21Z")
2x flamestrike is probably too much. If you can protect your board with a flamestrike, you should be winning already, and if you have to flamestrike to defend yourself on an empty board, you’ve probably lost and a second one won’t help you. 2x flamestrike is generally only played in HEAVY control decks, not even most freeze mage decks would play 2x flamestrike. Maybe grinder/fatigue mages. I find that Sylv is usually better in decks that tend to fall a bit behind on board by turn 6, which allows you to catch up (because they either can’t play minions or have to trade inefficiently). I would rather have 2x frostbolt (surely that’s a typo? 1 frostbolt? best card). Also, 3 flamewakers seems a bit much. 😉 You seem a bit light on the draw, I would rather have another azure drake, or arcane intellect. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/992 "2015-10-15T01:10:55Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Is there any point to trying to strategize this week’s Tavern Brawl. It seems so utterly random. It actually is totally random. Not my cup of tea. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/993 "2015-10-15T01:12:33Z")
Boom is for noobs. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/994 "2015-10-15T04:19:20Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > 2x flamestrike is probably too much. If you can protect your board with a flamestrike, you should be winning already, and if you have to flamestrike to defend yourself on an empty board, you’ve probably lost and a second one won’t help you. You’re probably right. The second flamestrike has won me a surprisingly high amount of games when I’ve topdecked it in long games, but sylv would probably win me as many. > [@](#): > > I would rather have 2x frostbolt (surely that’s a typo? 1 frostbolt? best card). Also, 3 flamewakers seems a bit much. 😉 > > You seem a bit light on the draw, I would rather have another azure drake, or arcane intellect. I decided to go with two flamecannons over two frostbolts. That’s probably a mistake, since frostbolts keep their freeze utility even when they can’t one shot a minion, and obviously you can aim them. I’ve been finding the flamecannons pretty useful as I’m often facing a solo enemy on the board with four health in the early game. So swap a flamestrike for sylv. A flamecannon for Frostbolt, or something else? And what should I lose for the extra drake? ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/995 "2015-10-15T06:31:19Z")
How is Antonidas doing for you? I realise you’re quite overloaded on the 7 slot, actually. Do you have enough spells all the way until turn 8-9 to take advantage? It seems to me that you can either have Flamewakers to gain massive midgame tempo around turn 5-6, or you keep the spells until you can turn them into fireballs at 8-9, but not both. My preference would be to get rid of anton, since you already have plays for 7 and 8. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/996 "2015-10-15T06:55:52Z")
I think Antonidas is pretty important. My deck lacks some finishing power against control even with Rag and Anton. I’ve been getting down to round 15+ too often. The flamewalkers often get killed pretty quickly after deployment, whereas I almost always get at least one fireball out of Anton, so I don’t think I’d want to drop him. The second flamestrike being gone is something I’m missing more than I’d thought. It ends up being a complete game turnaround against a lot of classes and deck types. Having only one means it’s less likely that I’m going to have it drawn when I need it. There are a few games I’ve played already where having a flamestrike at the right time would’ve won it, but I decreased my chance of having it in my deck significantly. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/997 "2015-10-15T07:25:01Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Is there any point to trying to strategize this week’s Tavern Brawl. It seems so utterly random. Here’s your winning strategy: play enough games to get your free pack. Quit playing. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/998 "2015-10-15T07:38:01Z")
Hm. A deck like this going to turn 15+ regularly seems odd to me. I wish I could spectate some of your games to see how you’re playing it - the Mana Wyrms and cheap spells + mirror entity + portals + flamewaker seems like a tempo mage type deck, where you grab the board early and never let go, and then Boom + rag come down to seal the deal. Anton kind of doesn’t fit in because you can’t turn 7 anton, you need to wait until turn 9+ to combo with cheap spells, which most of the time you would have used to buff your wyrm or get board control with waker. My only thought could be that you’re not pivoting to hit face early enough, and instead clear the board with minions and save spells. In that kind of situation, control can get control of the board back with a board wipe, and then you have to top deck anton and hope he doesn’t have enough removal for anton to stick around for fireball cycling. Do you keep stats? What do you normally lose to? How many fireballs do you usually get with Anton? My only other thought to improving the deck would be replacing the water eles with Piloted Shredders. Eles are more value and anti-aggro, whereas Shredders give more aggression and are more anti-control. In a tempo style deck like this, you should be looking to close out the game, and not spend time cleaning the board. Besides, waker should be good for cleaning the board around turn 5-6, so it kind of takes the job of the ele. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/999 "2015-10-19T02:03:50Z")
I get long games against any sort of slow deck a lot. My deck doesn’t have enough minions to keep up the pressure like an aggro deck, so one board wipe, or even just clearing a few minions gets me to the point of top-decking spells. It’s not like my midrange demonlock deck where my average win is probably around turn 9 (including forfeits) or face hunter which is even quicker. Average win is much slower, probably coming around turn 11-13. When everything goes right, and I draw mana wryms and sorcessess and cheap spells off the bat, and they don’t have early board clear, it can definitely spiral out of control for them but that’s probably only like 15% of games where I get great opening draws. It’s very common that I have to use a flamestrike to turn the board around, and then drop Rag or Antonius as a finisher. I think you may be right about Shredders vs Eles, especially when Patron warrior leaves the game and there aren’t so many weapons around. Waker doesn’t work out as often as I’d like. If I drop it on tempo, I can’t get immediate value out of it, but if I wait until turn 4 or 5 the enemy often has something that can easily kill a 2-4. I’m not regularly getting more than 2 damage out of wakers. I wonder if it’s viable to have some sort of taunt to put them behind. I’m not doing too badly - I shot up from level 16 to level 9 quickly when I started using it, but then I’ve been hovering around 10-11 since then. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1000 "2015-10-19T02:11:42Z")
I’ll start keeping stats and notes about the deck for more info. Was also thinking of crafting the Nexus Champion for more spells. Would that fit well? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172.md?page=51)