# The Hearthstone Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 28, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172 "2014-04-28T07:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1301 "2016-01-22T20:39:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Look, when **I** do a OTK it’s through skillful manipulation of the cards, mechanics, and overall premise of the game. > > When somebody does it to **me,** it’s because they’re exploiting broken loopholes in a broken game using a broken tryhard netdeck and you know what FUCK them. Ah, gotcha, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1302 "2016-01-24T20:30:55Z")
Why isn’t mukla’s champion played in any flood/token/high minion decks? It seems like even getting one tick off makes it very worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1303 "2016-01-24T21:16:56Z")
It’s just really expensive. It basically reads “spend 7 mana to give your other minions +1/+1.” Really, really bad value on the turn you play it. Much better value if you can keep it out for a few turns, but that’s the case for lots of cards. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1304 "2016-01-24T21:26:27Z")
I mean, obviously that’s underselling it. It’s more like “spend 7 mana to give your other minions 1+1, have a new 4/3 minion on the board, and get to use your hero power” ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1305 "2016-01-24T21:34:19Z")
It’s pretty similar to Stormwind Champion, which also is not played in constructive but a house in arena. (Champion advantages: better on an empty or near-empty board because reasonable if overpriced stats; harder to straight-up kill the turn it enters play. Mukla advantages: bonus sticks around even if it dies; can continue getting bonuses over time; you get a hero power activation; can cast at 5 in extremis.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1306 "2016-01-24T22:37:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Why isn’t mukla’s champion played in any flood/token/high minion decks? It seems like even getting one tick off makes it very worthwhile. I think it hasn’t made it into the constructed scene (even though it’s pretty good in arena) for two reasons. 1. AOE and removal are more prevelent and it’s quite easy to kill for a 5 (7) mana creature. 2. In situations where it’s good (board full of tokens or smallish creatures) it doesn’t either win the game outright or make the opponent’s response any harder (a board clear is unlikely to work that much worse on a on a sea of tokens than on a sea of buffed tokens) so you win more games by replacing with another medium-high mana cost card with more consistency or a better ‘trade in your tokens’ card like Bloodlust/Savage Roar/Everyfin/Cultmaster It might work in a Renolock deck … I haven’t tried any variations of that yet though. In other news, still bouncing between ranks 5-3. Legend is looking less and less likely this month. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1307 "2016-01-25T02:22:46Z")
I’ve actually seen Mukla’s champion in decks before. At the beginning of TGT, where people were still experimenting with inspire, Mukla’s champion was run in totem shaman, I assume to make ThunderBluff Valiant more consistent. If you can’t remove them, they’re really brutal in Shaman. Totem Shaman still isn’t a thing because totems are just too crap, though. Nothing on Mukla’s champion. EDIT: The meta might be ripe for a comeback, though. People are all teching against Secret Paladin, I haven’t seen a “hard” board clear like Flamestrike or Auch/Circle in a while, mostly just consecrate. Make totem shaman a thing! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1308 "2016-01-25T03:34:35Z")
Okay, secrets is pretty gross. I had been having fun with aggro druid but it really doesn’t feel as powerful. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1309 "2016-01-25T03:53:59Z")
Mid-range druid is the top deck on tempostorm at the moment (secret pally is 2), but aggro druid has fallen a decent bit. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1310 "2016-01-25T09:23:56Z")
With all the Freeze Mage, Tempo Mage and Secret Paladin, my Oil Rogue is really taking a beating. I’m still positive against Paladin, but it’s getting harder, and Mage is just gross - 33% winrate. Tanking my rank super hard. =( ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1311 "2016-01-25T09:45:53Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Maybe “gross” means something different in card games but how is this any different than what you’re trying to do with Maly? > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Look, when **I** do a OTK it’s through skillful manipulation of the cards, mechanics, and overall premise of the game. > > When somebody does it to **me,** it’s because they’re exploiting broken loopholes in a broken game using a broken tryhard netdeck and you know what FUCK them. ^This 😃 Well, okay, also the factor that you really don’t see it coming from Priest. I mean, mage burn deck? Sure. Warlocks hitting you for 8 with double soulfire to close out the round? That’s a zoolock staple! Aggro Shaman ending you with Lava Bursts and Crackles? It’s a thing! Priest throwing 24 burn damage at your face in one turn? Well, lesson learned, I guess. 😃 That stuff is pretty scary. ---
**Author:** ![CrimeThink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@CrimeThink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrimeThink)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1312 "2016-01-25T14:00:11Z")
After some boring Arena’s lately I had a blast yesterday after drafting Anyfin can happen, 3 murloc knights, murloc warleader, a bluegill and puddlestomper. 5 out of the 8 wins were won using Anyfin can happen. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1313 "2016-01-25T16:00:17Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I mean, obviously that’s underselling it. It’s more like “spend 7 mana to give your other minions 1+1, have a new 4/3 minion on the board, and get to use your hero power” You’ve got to unpack that stuff, though. There’s value on the turn you play and value on future turns. The only value that Mukla’s Champion _himself_ gives you on the turn you play him is the +1/+1 to the minions you currently have on the board. That’s not worth 7 mana. Consider the druid card Power of the Wild, which gives the same bonus for two mana, _and_ has the versatility of the panther drop. That gives us a baseline understanding for the value of that ability. Mukla’s Champion will win games if it’s left on the board for multiple turns, but that’s the case for lots of cards. The problem is that he’s also easy to remove from the board for a card that has an effective cost of 7. If you’re in a position where your opponent can’t remove him from the board, you were probably going to win anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1314 "2016-01-25T19:15:49Z")
The Tuskarr totemic says it summons any random totem, but is it weighted? I’ve seen enough of them now to say confidently that I’ve seen significantly more high value totems (totem golem, searing totem, mana tide totem) than common ones (searing, wrath of air, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1315 "2016-01-25T19:25:20Z")
Have you kept data or is that just confirmation bias? You’re more likely to remember more impactful results. The Hearthstone wiki calls it a 12.5% chance per totem. Can’t find anything contradicting that, but I did look. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1316 "2016-01-25T19:37:18Z")
Haven’t collected data, but I’m actually rather good at avoiding confirmation bias on these sorts of issues (having played poker for a decade for a living, I’m pretty aware of the effects of confirmation bias). More likely, as shaman is a class I don’t play frequently, I probably just have an unlucky run in the 25 or 30 times I’ve seen it. I was just curious if it was actually weighted that way, or random chance. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1317 "2016-01-25T19:47:47Z")
I haven’t noticed it myself. If there’s any info about the data, it’s hidden under all the bitching about how OP the card is from when it first came out. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1318 "2016-01-26T02:06:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > … The only value that Mukla’s Champion _himself_ … can we not also say his stat points alone are worth 3 mana, while the bananas are worth 2 mana just like Power of the Wild (plus the threat to add bananas every turn for free) if you also happen to be using your hero power? with that baseline, isn’t the added threat free in terms of mana cost? it is a late-game play though and requires a board. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1319 "2016-01-26T08:42:09Z")
I plan on testing Mukla’s out on the cheapo Token/Egg Druid deck I’m building for a daily, and then will never touch again, because I have pretty much none of the good non-basic Druid cards except Druid of the Claw. I cannot think of another class where almost every deck needs so many class epics. Yeesh. 😕 The mana calculation **shijinn** makes isn’t wrong, but it neglects one important factor: the value of bigger plays over smaller ones. If my turn 7 is spent playing a vanilla 4/3, a Power of the Wild, and a Shapeshift, and my opponent’s turn is spent playing a Dr. Boom, an Ancient of War/Lore, or a similarly good 7-drop, they typically had a _much_ better turn than me. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172/1320 "2016-01-26T23:56:34Z")
I think after months of experience and intense study, I have finally mastered Dr. Boom. 1. If you’re building a deck, include Dr. Boom 2. If you have 7 mana, and Dr. Boom is on your hand, play Dr. Boom. I hope this guide can help you. Also I guess they’re never going to nerf that shit because what’s it been, a year now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hearthstone-thread/687172.md?page=67)