# The Hindi folks, upstairs **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 28, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549 "2005-04-28T14:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/41 "2005-04-29T07:08:07Z")
**Aaanamika** , I am seriously interested and fascinated with the Indian culture and particularly its major religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism), but it seems that Americans are only offered some “cultic” version of Hinduism or Sikhism (Millionaire Maharishis, Hare Krishnas, Sikh communes, etc.). Now, there is a local Hindu temple that is pretty exclusive to the local Indian community, here. Would I be greeted as a true seeker or would I find some cultural roadblocks and difficulty if I wanted to participate in their festivals and services? I know this would be impossible for you to say accurately but what is your general experience? ---
**Author:** ![gouda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@gouda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gouda)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/42 "2005-04-29T10:13:08Z")
Devilsknew: You’d probably have a few difficulties initially, but only because of a lack of familiarity with ritual procedures. That aside, you’d be as welcome as anyone else. Daithi Lacha: There have been instances of religious groups taking offence against the use of Hindu symbols by companies. There was a firm that was forced to remove the “Om” symbol from the toilet seat cover they were marketing, and another that was forced to withdraw its flip-flops with a picture of Krishna (maybe some other god-figure. Not sure) imprinted on them. There are other examples, but I can’t remember 'em right now. I suppose that as long as you aren’t seen to be disrespecting the symbol, you’re ok. **Triskadekamus** , that was very nice of you. Every immigrant should have a neighbour like you! ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/43 "2005-04-29T12:21:42Z")
Thank you, **Gouda**. And for the record - indeed, kudos to **Trisk** - in this xenophobic age, befriending an immigrant (or allowing an immigrant to befriend _you_) is an act of basic humanity and something worthy of note, sad to say. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/44 "2005-04-29T13:17:41Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > **Aaanamika** , I am seriously interested and fascinated with the Indian culture and particularly its major religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism), but it seems that Americans are only offered some “cultic” version of Hinduism or Sikhism (Millionaire Maharishis, Hare Krishnas, Sikh communes, etc.). Now, there is a local Hindu temple that is pretty exclusive to the local Indian community, here. Would I be greeted as a true seeker or would I find some cultural roadblocks and difficulty if I wanted to participate in their festivals and services? I know this would be impossible for you to say accurately but what is your general experience? We have had many, many non-Indians in every temple I’ve been part of. People are generally kind enough to tell you the right way to do things, or show you how to drink and then splash the \*jalpan \* over you. \*Jalpan \* is blessed water. Just don’t reject any food they give you, the food right after the service is \*prasad \* and is blessed food. Be sure you eat it. Other than that, I tend to think white people often look prettier in Indian clothes then we ever could because of the pale skin, etc. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/45 "2005-04-29T15:09:23Z")
What a nice story. Thanks for sharing it with us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/46 "2005-04-29T16:41:59Z")
Another ignorant question: we’ve been having a lot of trouble in the library with a shortage of kids; they build another branch out farther, where the growth is, and the young families have deserted. What I tink _really_ happened is that the most typical library user families left, but that there’s lots of kids around we’re not reaching. Where are the Indian families who aren’t using our library congregating? Would there be a temple around somewhere? (Keep in mind I don’t know how big the community really is). Would it be in the phone book? Do Indian temples have, you know, bulletin boards? In other words, where on earth could I leave flyers to attract families with children to our library programming? Even the families who use the library heavily don’t seem to do storytime. ---
**Author:** ![Penchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Penchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penchan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/47 "2005-04-29T17:09:42Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Nope, ‘Oriental’ will identify you as stuck in the 1950s. 🙂 In all seriousness, it’s not really very ‘un-PC’, simply because it’s never ever used. Yes and it will get you nothing but dirty looks from Asian people. If you _really_ want to be PC, and if you’re not sure who you’re addressing, call us Asian Pacific Islanders or APIs so that you’re not excluding our Filipino brothers and sisters. We’re just making it all hard on you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/48 "2005-04-29T17:20:40Z")
> [@Penchan](#): > > Yes and it will get you nothing but dirty looks from Asian people. If you _really_ want to be PC, and if you’re not sure who you’re addressing, call us Asian Pacific Islanders or APIs so that you’re not excluding our Filipino brothers and sisters. > > We’re just making it all hard on you 🙂 Korea’s an island? You learn something new every day… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/49 "2005-04-29T18:38:09Z")
**Zsofia** the temple my family goes to in MA has a bulletin board where you would be able to tack up an announcement. Although, I don’t know about the latest wave of immigrants but in my experience desis tend to hang out at their cultural clubs a hell of a lot more than they do the temple-like the Maharashtrian Mandal, UP Club, state Indian Association and so on and so forth. If they and their kids are hanging around temple all the time they are likely to be involved in temple camp or something. Another resource is Cultural School on Sundays-I don’t know where they would have it in S. Carolina but in MA/New England there are a bunch. They meet the same time as Church and they tend to teach language and culture over approx. 3 hours (ours started out just Hindi/Marathi/Gujarati but now all the South Indian languages are taught and it’s a huge deal with branches in NH and W.MA). If you contact at least the Indian association in your state they’ll be able to tell you if they are holding one. We always used to have announcements at ours right before the singing of Vande Mataram and Jana Gana Mana (national songs) so you could ask the directors/teachers to do that for you. **Daithi** -I come from Maharashtra where Ganesh (Ganpati) is a super-huge deal, the patron Hindu Marathi deity (on account of him being the god of theatre and all) and his image is on EVERYTHING. Hell, my sister’s wedding invitation will have Ganpati on the front envelope, as a sticker closing the envelope and then on the front of the invite for an extra punch of good luck. My mom makes me carry around a Ganpati keychain. I would not stress about it. It’s really common around Bombay to see it on stationary etc… I think people are going to assume you’re Indian, though. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/50 "2005-04-29T18:56:28Z")
> [@anu-la1979](#): > > **Daithi** -I come from Maharashtra where Ganesh (Ganpati) is a super-huge deal, the patron Hindu Marathi deity (on account of him being the god of theatre and all) and his image is on EVERYTHING. Hell, my sister’s wedding invitation will have Ganpati on the front envelope, as a sticker closing the envelope and then on the front of the invite for an extra punch of good luck. My mom makes me carry around a Ganpati keychain. I would not stress about it. It’s really common around Bombay to see it on stationary etc… I think people are going to assume you’re Indian, though. Heh. I don’t much care what people assume, anyway - as long as they like my designs. My friend who married an Indian gal had Ganesha on their wedding invitations, too. I appreciated the significance. Now - is there a difference between “Ganesh,” and “Ganesh **a** ”? Would “Ganpati” be the local transliteration? ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/51 "2005-04-29T19:07:09Z")
**Daithi** …not sure about the spelling difference. It’s probably the same deal as Shiv/Shiva. They’re pronounced the same-sometimes they add an “A” on the end of spellings b/c the real pronounciation is “Ganesh-uh” (short, indicating male) but it’s done so quickly you can just drop the “a” and spell it Ganesh. I think this is often done when translating to English b/c feminization is done in Sanskrit with the use of the long “a” (aaaaah). For instance-my legal name Anagha has the “a” tacked on the end to make sure that in English it carries out the long “aaaaah” vowel from Sanskrit and the male equivalent would be spelled as “Anagh” (never seen that word used, though for a boy’s name) but you could also spell it “Anagha” for the male in English although the reader would have to know that it would end in the short a (“uh”) to make it a male name. Does that make sense? Like the name Ashwini is a female name and is pronounced Ash-we-neeee (long female sound) and the male name is typically spelled Ashwin, although I’ve met a guy who spells it Ashwini but the “i” on the end of his name is “short” indicating maleness. I’ve never heard Ganesh’s name made into a female name. Typically the female name for Ganesh is Gauravi, b/c Gaurav is another male name for Ganesh. Ganpati/Ganpati Baba seems to be a regional variation. I’ve heard Gujarati people also refer to Ganesh as Ganpati, though. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/52 "2005-04-29T19:17:21Z")
Well, see now, this just strengthens my resolve to get accent marks back into the English language! That’s a thread unto itself, though. I’m already feeling guilty enough over hijacking this thread overlong. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/53 "2005-04-29T23:45:23Z")
> [@Daithi Lacha](#): > > Well, see now, this just strengthens my resolve to get accent marks back into the English language! > That’s a thread unto itself, though. I’m already feeling guilty enough over hijacking this thread overlong. And gender - Hindi has gender for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/54 "2005-04-30T05:46:55Z")
The hijack is fine with me. I don’t need much more in the way of pats on the back for being a nice guy. (For which, by the way, I thank you all.) So, I will learn even more about the culture of a billion people I have learned more about in the last two days than in the nearly sixty years before that. In the spirit of my young neighbor, we can all help out, either by listening, or asking, or answering questions. Hijack away. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/55 "2005-04-30T09:39:56Z")
_Ganapati_ means ‘the lord of the clans’ in Sanskrit. I know that sounds like a Scottish version of _The Lord of the Rings_, but it has a basis in Hinduism. _Gana_ means a clan, and _pati_ means ‘lord’. Unstressed short vowels in open syllables tend to disappear in modern Hindi pronunciation. We’ve seen examples in this thread already: Gujarati \> Gujrati. Telugu \> Telgu. (The standard spellings are Gujarati and Telugu, with the short vowels left in, hope this doesn’t confuse anyone.) Same in Urdu, names like Aminah and Abidah are pronounced Amna and Abda in some dialects, especially Panjabi. In Paul Brunton’s book _A Search in Secret India_, as soon as he starts on the topic of yoga, he adds an aside — by the way, the actual pronunciation is “yog” for those in the know, something like that. Well, yes and no, Paul. Yog is the Hindi pronunciation, and yoga is the Sanskrit pronunciation. I think it’s reasonable for non-Indians who study Hindu philosophy to use the Sanskrit words in preference to Hindi, since the sources are all written in Sanskrit. If hear anyone speaking Hindi, they will say all the Sanskrit words with the final short -a missing. But if they chant the Vedas the traditional way or recite a classical passage in Sanskrit, the final short -a is pronounced. In Hindi songs, the silent final short -a is still considered a metrical syllable and is sometimes lightly enunciated when a note needs to be sung on it. ---
**Author:** ![monica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/56 "2005-04-30T13:00:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Kirpan. > > “Those who join the Khalsa must always carry with them the “five Ks”: kesh (unshorn hair: anyone cutting his hair is a renegade); kacha (short trousers), kirpan (dagger), kara (iron bracelet) e kanga (comb).” Are they allowed to just kind of have it near them? As in, when they go on an airplane, can it be in the baggage compartment below? I would think the dagger would present an issue there. And what about courthouses? And other places where you can’t bring weapons? ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/57 "2005-04-30T13:05:56Z")
From what I gather from my Sikh friend, in situations where an actual Kirpan would be inappropriate, a small symbolic Kirpan on a necklace is sufficient. Something about 1/2 an inch long, and incapable of causing actual harm. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/58 "2005-05-01T02:11:04Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > _Ganapati_ means ‘the lord of the clans’ in Sanskrit. I know that sounds like a Scottish version of _The Lord of the Rings_, but it has a basis in Hinduism. _Gana_ means a clan, and _pati_ means ‘lord’. In one of the versions that I read of the Ganesha creation legend, it said that The Nesa were sort of dwarves, and courtiers and footmen of Shiva, and that Ganesha was made the head of them. Another version I read (in comic-book form, actually; much better than a Chic Tract) showed them as humans. Which is the more accepted version? Many thanks for the go-ahead, **Trisk**! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/59 "2005-05-01T14:18:29Z")
**Daithi Lacha** , I was a little confused by your question and did some searching around. The word you want is _gana_. In this case, the _gana_ of Shiva refers to his demon troops, and his son Ganesha was said to have been appointed their commander. M. Monier-Williams’s \*Sanskrit-English Dictionary explains: > [@M. Monier-Williams](#): > > **Gana** , a flock, troop, multitude, number, class (of animate or inanimate beings), body of followers or attendants, troops or classes of inferior deities (especially certain troops of demi-gods considered as Siva’s attendants and under the special superintendence of the god Ganesa), a single attendant of Siva… (Underlining mine) [http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/ZW68/](http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/ZW68/) > [@](#): > > It is said: He who is rejected by everyone will always find refuge with Shiva. Demons, Vampires, Ghosts and Goblins are feared by all. But they are also the children of Brahma and have as much right to nature as the rest of us. Then there are the ganas, Shiva’s companions - ugly, deformed, mis-shaped, they drink and dance as they like, when they like, following no rule of law. The only thing consistent about them is their adoration of Shiva and Shiva’s love for them. The name Ganesha also means ‘Lord of the Gana’, a compound of _gana + isha_ ‘lord’, and the rules of sandhi at the word boundary combine the two vowels _a+i_ into the vowel _e_. The words _pati_ and _isha_ both mean ‘lord’; this explains the two names Ganapati and Ganesha, which are synonyms. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549/60 "2005-05-01T15:53:17Z")
**Daithi** -the Ganesh creation story I was taught was very different-I’m assuming it’s the most mainstream one b/c most Hindus I know are taught this particular one. Parvati (Shiva’s wife) decided to bathe while Shiva was away meditating. In order to protect her privacy she created a son out of clay and breathed life into him and ordered him to protect her. While she was in the midst of bathing, Shiva came back to his abode and attempted to cross the threshold of his home to see Parvati. He was stopped by the insolent (then human-headed) Ganesh. After an exchange of words in which Ganesh refused to let him cross, Shiva slew him. After Parvati heard about it she got very upset-so in order to appease her Shiva hunted down an elepant, slew it and set its head atop Ganesh’s decapitated body. After that he accepted Ganesh as his son. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hindi-folks-upstairs/301549.md?page=4)