# the history of sandpaper. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600 "2004-10-17T00:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Weeks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbce88/32.png) [@Weeks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeks)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/1 "2004-10-17T00:47:38Z")
Regarding the history of sandpaper, the best I can google is this blurb: "June 14, 1834,Isaac Fischer Jr patents sandpaper " Not a lot of info but it begs the question , How in the world did SO much get SO smooth before june of 1834? ( And why is there not a website devoted to the tale?) ---
**Author:** ![Ennui](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ennui/32/3396_2.png) [@Ennui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ennui)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/2 "2004-10-17T01:05:00Z")
Strangely interesting question, I just checked wikipedia and they mention: “The first recorded instance of sandpaper was in 13th century China when crushed shells, seeds, and sand were bonded to parchment using natural gum.” [(Cite)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpaper) Their has to be more to the story. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/3 "2004-10-17T01:10:35Z")
Pretty much anything with grit can be used to polish. Here are some examples from SCA types: [http://www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/polishing-msg.html](http://www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/polishing-msg.html) ---
**Author:** ![Weeks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbce88/32.png) [@Weeks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeks)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/4 "2004-10-17T01:41:11Z")
yeah, strange, huh? I’m not really interested how a cave man used sand and ash to polish a bone , what I’m looking for is an explanation of the palace at Versailles or the Taj Mahal…etc… Certainly there was an accepted way that was codified then. Heaven help me if they used sand, leather and ash. certainly a mirror smooth finish on wood cannot be done with a wet process, water raising the grain and all that. Makes you wonder ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/5 "2004-10-17T01:51:07Z")
I’ve read that the Egyptians used sand and stones to smooth and fit the blocks for the pyramids. But that’s not paper. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![VernWinterbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c67d28/32.png) [@VernWinterbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VernWinterbottom)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/6 "2004-10-17T02:07:39Z")
Weeks, a mirror smooth surface on wood isn’t achieved with sandpaper. The mirror finish comes from shellac, varnish, waxes, oils, etc. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/7 "2004-10-17T02:16:36Z")
> [@VernWinterbottom](#): > > Weeks, a mirror smooth surface on wood isn’t achieved with sandpaper. The mirror finish comes from shellac, varnish, waxes, oils, etc. Some (hard)woods can be polished to a very high, even reflective, gloss using nothing but abrasives. ---
**Author:** ![Weeks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbce88/32.png) [@Weeks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeks)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/8 "2004-10-17T02:24:42Z")
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gimme’the benefit of a doubt. Hows this? " a mirror smooth surface on wood,( one that involves shellac, varnish, waxes, oils, etc). cannot come from a wet process… We all know what I’m talking about , right?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/9 "2004-10-17T02:28:52Z")
> [@VernWinterbottom](#): > > Weeks, a mirror smooth surface on wood isn’t achieved with sandpaper. The mirror finish comes from shellac, varnish, waxes, oils, etc. [Plus steel wool, sand paper, pumice and rottenstone](http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish11.shtml): > [@](#): > > 1. Thin the lacquer to 2/1 ratio of thinner to lacquer, and apply two successive wet coats no more than five minutes apart. Set the piece aside for at least two days. > > 2. Buff lightly with the steel wool to remove dust, bugs, over-spray, runs, etc. > Wet sand with 1000-grit, followed with 1500 and 2000-grit, both lubricated with water. For a rough or brushed on surface, you may have to start at 400 or 600-grit, and work your way up to the finer grits. A couple drops (only) of liquid dishwashing detergent in lukewarm water makes a better lubricant for sanding than water alone. > > 3. Polish with 4F Pumice that is lubricated with water. Use a piece of felt or a ball of cotton tee-shirt material for polishing pads. Then buff clean with a cotton cloth. > > 4. Polish the surface with Rottenstone, lubricated with water. > > 5. Polish one more time with Rottenstone, only this time it is lubricated with mineral oil. > > 6. Buff with a clean cotton cloth. It may be necessary to wipe with soap and water or mineral spirits to remove all of the oil from the surface. Lacquer will not dissolve in mineral spirits. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/10 "2004-10-17T02:32:35Z")
> [@VernWinterbottom](#): > > Weeks, a mirror smooth surface on wood isn’t achieved with sandpaper. The mirror finish comes from shellac, varnish, waxes, oils, etc. That’s not entirely true. Cocuswood for example, will take a darn nice shine with nothing more than 400 grit sandpaper. You can see your reflection in it! Other hardwoods shine up to varying degrees when sanded, and to achieve a good finish, _are_ sanded before being laquered and polished. If you start laquering on a rough surface, it takes many more coats to get good results. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/11 "2004-10-17T02:44:44Z")
> [@Weeks](#): > > Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gimme’the benefit of a doubt. Hows this? " a mirror smooth surface on wood,( one that involves shellac, varnish, waxes, oils, etc). cannot come from a wet process… > We all know what I’m talking about , right?😉 Don’t back out now, I’m agreeing with you. As is **Squink**. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/12 "2004-10-17T02:54:40Z")
> [@Weeks](#): > > Hows this? " a mirror smooth surface on wood,( one that involves shellac, varnish, waxes, oils, etc). cannot come from a wet process… In practice, at least in the furniture business, that is incorrect. I spent three years in college supplementing my income in the repair shop of a major furniture store, and all of our polishing was done with a wet process similar to what was described in my cite above. If you try to buff out a lacquer finish dry, you will burn it; you need some type of liquid to lubricate the buffing compound. Modern acrylic lacquer is waterproof, so the wood cannot absorb the liquid, at least not in the time requied to buff out a tabletop… ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/13 "2004-10-17T03:26:13Z")
As I recall wood shop in high school, we used a wood filler to fill up the grain in oak and other open grain woods. Then the surface could be sanded to an exceedingly smooth surface. After the finish was applied, pumice and other fine abrasives were used to polish the finish to a mirror finish - which lasted until dad dropped pipe embers on it. but that’s another story. ---
**Author:** ![Weeks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbce88/32.png) [@Weeks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeks)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/14 "2004-10-17T03:34:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Wet sand with 1000-grit, followed with 1500 and 2000-grit, both lubricated with water. For a rough or brushed on surface, you may have to start at 400 or 600-grit, and work your way up to the finer grits Fear istelf, there is only one problem with your cite…It involves 2000 grit sandpaper! And what the hell is rottonstone, wait, don’t answer that. ---
**Author:** ![Weeks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbce88/32.png) [@Weeks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeks)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/15 "2004-10-17T03:36:18Z")
Yo, Dave, your story involves sandpaper! ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/16 "2004-10-17T04:28:08Z")
Before sandpaper, there were [scrapers](http://www.woodzone.com/articles/scrapers/) . Take a thin metal plate, file the edge to 90 degrees flat, and then burnish the edge to develop a fine burr. Purists claim that this will give you a smoother finish than sanding. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/17 "2004-10-17T07:28:44Z")
I wonder how much shark skin has been used to sand wood. The placoid scales are quite rough… ok just found a couple links for shagreen: [making shark leather](http://www.primitiveways.com/processing_sharkskin.html) (don’t mind the urine bath part) [shagreen definition](http://www.fishbase.org/Glossary/Glossary.cfm?TermEnglish=shagreen) This resource has always been around… as long as you weren’t too far from the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/18 "2004-10-17T13:06:09Z")
> [@Weeks](#): > > Fear istelf, there is only one problem with your cite…It involves 2000 grit sandpaper! And what the hell is rottonstone, wait, don’t answer that. I thought that was the whole point! ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/19 "2004-10-17T13:28:43Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Before sandpaper, there were [scrapers](http://www.woodzone.com/articles/scrapers/) . Take a thin metal plate, file the edge to 90 degrees flat, and then burnish the edge to develop a fine burr. Purists claim that this will give you a smoother finish than sanding. Exactly. Handplanes have been around since the Romans, and artistic renderings of building and cabinetmaking and the like since those times often feature the craftsman using planes. Using planes is almost a lost art now, but back before people were so reliant on mechanized joiners and the like, that’s what people used (planes) for their finishing work. In fact, even before the finishing work begins, handplanes have many applications and leave the wood very smooth. You hardly need sandpaper when you use a handplane (and you can use a finishing plane or scraper for the places that do need it). I guess sandpaper is so big now because it is cheap, and you don’t need expertise to use it, and it doesn’t need sharpening and maintaining. Stones were an early precursor to sandpaper. An ancient Egyptian depiction of a construction site (found in a tomb) showed craftsman using a stone to smooth wood. Other wooden artifacts from that culture have markings that show this was the usual method. They didn’t know/use planes. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600/20 "2004-10-17T13:38:21Z")
I would still reach for my scrapers before sandpaper if I was looking for a truly mirror like finish on wood that was going to be stained or French Polished. Sandpaper leaves residue that fills the pores of the wood, dulling its appearance. This can be hidden or disguised with shiny new coatings but if you are doing a fine furniture piece the scraper is the way to go. This is especially true on pieces where the figure of the grain features prominently such as tiger, birds eye or flame maple, curly koa and other strongly figured woods. I won’t even start to get into hard it is to finish these and still make the figure pop. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-history-of-sandpaper/269600.md?page=2)