# The Hitchens - Galloway Debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730 "2005-09-15T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/1 "2005-09-15T04:09:26Z")
Today Christopher Hitchens debated George Galloway on the Iraq war. I’m just starting to listen to it now, but I’ll bet it will be great. You can download the MP3’s [here](http://kpftx.org/#galloway) if you want to listen to it. Click on the seven ‘direct links’. The debate itself starts on part 2, but the first part is worth it just for the comedy value of listening to the commentators. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/2 "2005-09-15T13:56:30Z")
Did anyone listen to this? It was quite enjoyable. George Galloway is a despicable man. Hitchens mopped the floor with him. The crowd was split about 50/50 on each side, and it got quite unruly at times. Lotsa fun. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/3 "2005-09-15T14:09:51Z")
Is there a debate topic here? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/4 "2005-09-15T14:20:34Z")
Is there an online transcript somewhere? I can’t listen to this at work. Or post some of the highlights. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/5 "2005-09-15T14:27:58Z")
What’s interesting is thast both Galloway and Hitchens are theoretically on the same side" they’re both leftists with more or less the same ideology. War makes strange bedfellows. In peacetime, I would have no truck with Hitchens. Nevertheless, I admire his sense of honor and offer him respect that I never could Galloway. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/6 "2005-09-15T14:35:29Z")
What’s interesting is thast both Galloway and Hitchens are theoretically on the same side" they’re both leftists with more or less the same ideology. War makes strange bedfellows. In peacetime, I would have no truck with Hitchens. Nevertheless, I admire his sense of honor and offer him respect that I never could Galloway. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/7 "2005-09-15T16:03:23Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > What’s interesting is thast both Galloway and Hitchens are theoretically on the same side" they’re both leftists with more or less the same ideology. Hitchens hasn’t been a “leftist” for over four years. Is David Brock a conservative? ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/8 "2005-09-15T16:27:32Z")
About halfway through it–Hitchens is like a cat playing with a mouse. Galloway’s cheering section is as obnoxious as a Bill Maher audience. Oooh–G just blamed 9/11 on “a swamp of hated created by us”. Never heard so much booing. Too bad the moderator didn’t have any balls–whoops–I mean too bad about that stretch of larynigitis she got right after the intro. Step in it sometimes, lady, you’re supposed to be in charge. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/9 "2005-09-15T18:48:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Is there an online transcript somewhere? I can’t listen to this at work. Or post some of the highlights. > > Regards, > Shodan For highlights, at least, see this article from the _Times:_[The Times & The Sunday Times](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1781608_1,00.html) And this one from ABC: [http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1461310.htm](http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1461310.htm) If Hitchens and Galloway handle this right, they could spend years on a lucrative joint lecture circuit, like Timothy Leary and G. Gordon Liddy! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/10 "2005-09-15T18:56:44Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > George Galloway is a despicable man. Could you be more specific? Most of what I know about him comes from this board, recent news coverage, and “neutral” sources like this – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George\_Galloway](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway) – based on which, there is very little about him that is despicable\* and a great deal that is heroic. You know something we don’t? \*His quotes in praise of Hussein’s “indefatigability” stick in my craw too – but they’re hard to contradict. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/11 "2005-09-15T19:04:15Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Hitchens hasn’t been a “leftist” for over four years. Nitpick: He’s no longer a **socialist.** I think he would still self-identify as a “leftist” in most respects, based on this: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher\_Hitchens](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens) > [@](#): > > Although he no longer considers himself a socialist, he does not see much change in his political views. He has written on a broad range of subjects, but perhaps above all else he despises religion. To paraphrase him, he is not only an atheist but an antitheist. This is set within a broader context of enlightenment values of secularism, humanism, emancipation and reason. His disagreement with others on the left is that these values could – and at times, should – be defended by military force. In American terms, Hitchens’ nearest equivalent probably would be the Social Democrats, U.S.A. – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social\_Democrats%2C\_USA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democrats%2C_USA), [http://www.socialdemocrats.org/](http://www.socialdemocrats.org/) – who emerged out of the Socialist Party split (mainly over Vietnam) in 1973 ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist\_Party\_of\_America#Split](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America#Split)). The “right-Schachtmanite” pro-war faction eventually became the SDUSA. They’re like neocons in their foreign policy but they still believe in labor unions. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/12 "2005-09-15T19:50:55Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Hitchens hasn’t been a “leftist” for over four years. Is David Brock a conservative? CH is against any religion and in protection of all poor and oppressed, **everywhere in the world**. Simply put, an honest man. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/13 "2005-09-15T19:55:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Nitpick: He’s no longer a **socialist.** I think he would still self-identify as a “leftist” in most respects, based on this: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher\_Hitchens](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens) I’ve never been aware of a correlation between being an atheist (or anti-theist) and a “leftist”, to be quite honest. Also, he certainly doesn’t seem to [still consider himself](http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15346) a leftist. In any case, the statement that was made that both he and Galloway have more or less the same ideology is so far from reality that it needed to be challenged. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/14 "2005-09-15T19:56:47Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > CH is against any religion and in protection of all poor and oppressed, **everywhere in the world**. Simply put, an honest man. What does that have to do with him being a “leftist”, unless you are saying that all honest men can be found on the left. Is that what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/15 "2005-09-15T20:01:10Z")
I know nothing of this Galloway, but I do know that Hitchens is a polemic drunk, a warmonger and an abject ball washer for Bush. From the linked articles, it sounds like this debate was an exchange of _ad hominems_ more than anything else. Even if Galloway is “despicible” (and I don’t see how he could possibly be any more unsavory than Hitchens), that doesn’t make Hitchens right about the war. My impression from the articles (without having heard the whole debate) was that CH was debating a straw man “socialist” in order to score cheap points. Did Hitchens tell his story about the Kurdish taxi driver again? What a souse. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/16 "2005-09-15T20:21:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > For highlights, at least, see this article from the _Times:_[The Times & The Sunday Times](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1781608_1,00.html) > > And this one from ABC: [http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1461310.htm](http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1461310.htm) > > If Hitchens and Galloway handle this right, they could spend years on a lucrative joint lecture circuit, like Timothy Leary and G. Gordon Liddy! 🙂 Thanks for the links, **BG**. Hitchens seems to be accusing Galloway of profiting from the oil-for-food thefts. Has this definitely been established? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/17 "2005-09-15T20:25:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Hitchens seems to be accusing Galloway of profiting from the oil-for-food thefts. Has this definitely been established? No, and in fact Galloway won a libel suit against the _Daily Telegraph_ based on a story to that effect. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George\_Galloway#Corruption\_allegations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway#Corruption_allegations) Which doesn’t mean that the meme can’t be kept alive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/18 "2005-09-15T20:27:54Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > What does that have to do with him being a “leftist”, unless you are saying that all honest men can be found on the left. Of course not. But most persons who are primarily concerned with “protection of all poor and oppressed, everywhere in the world,” would be classed as leftists by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/19 "2005-09-15T20:29:44Z")
Controlling for vocabulary and erudition, I’ve seen more sophisticated debates between 8 year olds on whether Superman could outrun the Flash. The Iraq war is a serious issue. It deserves serious debate, not mud-slinging between two people who’s only objective seems to be to make the other look foolish. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730/20 "2005-09-15T20:33:51Z")
**DtC** : Well, there’s nothing wrong with being a “drunk”, per se. I could easily be called “a drunk”. Hiitchens does always look like he’s got a raging hangover, I have to admit, but so what? You would probably enjoy talking to him given his classical education. He can’t in any way be called a “ball washer” for Bush, as he has slammed Bush on a number of occasions. Aside than his stance on the Iraq war (which is no small issue, of course) I suspect you’d agree with him on almost every other political issue. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hitchens-galloway-debate/321730.md?page=2)