# The Hobbit question: The Lonely Mountain **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth, books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 3, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676 "2020-11-03T23:03:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/1 "2020-11-03T23:03:18Z")
The Lonely Mountain is apparently a free-standing mountain that isn’t part of a mountain range. It does even seem to have foothills. Geologically speaking, how plausible is it’s existence? ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/2 "2020-11-03T23:05:06Z")
Very plausible if it’s an extinct volcano. That might also explain why it has chambers inside it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/3 "2020-11-03T23:09:42Z")
Ah. Would an extinct volcano be likely to bear the lodes of gems and precious metals that TLM yielded? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/4 "2020-11-03T23:23:36Z")
Gold and silver deposits and crystal forms of minerals are usually produced due to volcanic processes. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/5 "2020-11-03T23:27:03Z")
[Mt. Kilimanjaro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Kilimanjaro) is a dormant volcano and the highest free-standing mountain on Earth (not part of a mountain range). ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/6 "2020-11-03T23:29:13Z")
It’s definitely true that volcanic areas are great places to hunt for precious stones and metals but the Lonely Mountain was a depository for treasure rather than a source of it. However if you’re into gold and diamonds, then a region like that is the place you might want to set up. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/7 "2020-11-03T23:39:59Z")
> **[Tolkien’s Map and The Messed Up Mountains of Middle-earth](https://www.tor.com/2017/08/01/tolkiens-map-and-the-messed-up-mountains-of-middle-earth/)** > > We’ve got to talk about Tolkien’s map of Middle-earth. The man might have made up some beautiful languages and written stories that generations of writers have responded to in ways ranging from hom… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/8 "2020-11-03T23:55:03Z")
Yeah, those square mountains around Mordor really looked odd to me. They’re much much weirder than the Lonely Mountain. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/9 "2020-11-04T00:00:06Z")
I always thought Mordor looked weird, too, but it was more the fractal nature of the map that got me. It was like Tolkien said “okay, the big baddie lives _here_,” (places finger on Udun), "in a square area surrounded by mountains. Nope, not big enough. Lemme draw another box around it. It’s a lava plain. But where do they get food? Lemme draw _another_ box around _that_! On more than 1 zoom level it’s a box of mountains with another smaller box in the northwest corner. And if the author _had_ read the Silmarillion he’d know that the Misty Mountains, lover of right angles, was also created by Melkor so should also get somewhat of a pass. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/10 "2020-11-04T00:08:39Z")
There are some pretty substantial mountains in the world that aren’t in mountain ranges, but I am pretty sure they’re all volcanic. I don’t see why Lonely Mountain even had to be an EXTINCT volcano. Maybe it just don’t erupt during the events of the book. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/11 "2020-11-04T00:26:29Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Very plausible if it’s an extinct volcano. Not fully exitnct. The ‘dragon’ sleeping inside is a mythologic explanation of a smoking mountain that, within memory, destroyed the towns surrounding it. cf the Balrog, the anthropomorphic personification of the malice of nature on high mountains. Although it lives in the root of the mountain, the surface of the mountain exposes it’s existence. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/12 "2020-11-04T02:38:30Z")
Remember Middle Earth was actually crafted. It was not the result of science. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/13 "2020-11-04T04:38:38Z")
Yeah, I don’t get the article that goes on about how ‘mountains don’t work like that’. These are mountains that were explicitly built into place by godlike beings, they aren’t natural formations that are a result of geological processes. And it’s not ‘we have some myths passed down in oral tradition and written down thousands of years later’ like a lot of Earth mythology, within the context of the books the events of the creation were written down by people who were there or talked to people who were there when it happened. I’ve never understood the desire some geeks have to force science into explicitly fantasy worlds. It’s one thing to assume that real-world physics applies if the world doesn’t say anything about it, but when a work explicitly states that the mountain ranges were constructed by godlike beings it’s just absurd to deny it. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/14 "2020-11-04T05:22:48Z")
It’s not that unusual. Mount Monadnock in southern New Hampshire stands pretty much alone, and it isn’t an extinct volcano – it’s just harder rock than the other summits nearby were, so they eroded away. In fact “monadnock” has become a geological term for such isolated mountains. (Elsewhere in the world the term is _inselburg_. Obviously, there’s a bunch of them around.) > **[Mount Monadnock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Monadnock)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Mount Monadnock, or Grand Monadnock, is a mountain in the towns of Jaffrey and Dublin, New Hampshire. It is the most prominent mountain peak in southern New Hampshire and is the highest point in Cheshire County. It lies 38 miles (61 km) southwest of Concord and 62 miles (100 km) northwest of Boston. At 3,165 feet (965 m), Mount Monadnock is nearly 1,000 feet (305 m) higher than any other mountain peak within 30 miles (48 km) and rises 2,000 feet ... > **[Inselberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inselberg)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > An inselberg or monadnock (/məˈnædnɒk/) is an isolated rock hill, knob, ridge, or small mountain that rises abruptly from a gently sloping or virtually level surrounding plain. > In Southern Africa a similar formation of granite is known as a koppie, an Afrikaans word ("little head") from the Dutch diminutive word kopje. If the inselberg is dome-shaped and formed from granite or gneiss, it can also be called a bornhardt, though not all bornhardts a... ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/15 "2020-11-04T08:09:30Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > It’s definitely true that volcanic areas are great places to hunt for precious stones and metals but the Lonely Mountain was a depository for treasure rather than a source of it. The Arkenstone was found in the Lonely Mountain. Probably some, but not all, of Smaug’s hoard was too. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/16 "2020-11-04T10:35:24Z")
Volcanos are not good places to look for precious stones, or metals. Not even diamonds, even though they are volcanic in origin - the kind of eruption that brings diamonds to the surface is not quite the nice conical volcanic mountain-making kind. Much more likely to leave a lake than a mountain. But the Arkenstone is not a diamond so who knows… Other precious stones and most semiprecious ones are not volcanic, but many can be found _around_ volcanic areas, in their metamorphic aureoles, such as in skarns and pegmatites. Some metals occur in volcanoes themselves but rarely in any economically-recoverable amounts, but again, the area _around_ the extrusion is a much better bet for mineralization than the volcano itself. And most _terrestrial_ igneous-associated metal deposits are associated with these aureoles (see e.g porphyry copper and gold) or with _intrusives_ - giant bodies of magma that never make it to the surface. I emphasized terrestrial there because there is one kind of extrusive “volcano” that _is_ heavily metal-bearing - the _marine_ hydrothermal vent deposits known as “black smokers”. But these don’t become lonely mountains when they eventually make it to being part of the continents. Safer just to stick with “a wizard did it” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/17 "2020-11-04T12:51:19Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Yeah, I don’t get the article that goes on about how ‘mountains don’t work like that’. These are mountains that were explicitly built into place by godlike beings, they aren’t natural formations that are a result of geological processes. For the record, although I’m the one who posted the article, and I think it’s interesting for what it says about our world’s geography, I pretty much agree with your point of view here. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/18 "2020-11-04T23:26:48Z")
Nope. Eru did it, with help from the Valar. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/19 "2020-11-05T04:22:47Z")
He’s correct about the Mountains of Mordor, but there are a few places where mountain ranges meet at close to right angles similar to those between the Misty Mountains and the White Mountains and Grey Mountains, such as the [Alps and Apennines and Dinaric Alps](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cc/ca/cf/cccacfed359b0ef2f357b15af1b6b9aa.gif) or the [Himalayas-Hindu Kush-Tian Shan.](https://www.scidev.net/filemanager/root/site_assets/sa/HKH-Physical-Map.jpg). So those are odd but not completely implausible. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676/20 "2020-11-05T18:28:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Some metals occur in volcanoes themselves but rarely in any economically-recoverable amounts, but again, the area _around_ the extrusion is a much better bet for mineralization than the volcano itself. And most _terrestrial_ igneous-associated metal deposits are associated with these aureoles (see e.g porphyry copper and gold) or with _intrusives_ - giant bodies of magma that never make it to the surface. IIRC, the usual scenario is a caldera forms after the magma chamber empties making these nice, vertical cracks that go _deep_ into the crust. This allows surface water to seep down, get heated and mineralized, then rise back toward the surface leaving the minerals behind in concentrations rich enough to exploit. At least, that’s how the copper, silver, and gold deposits in southern Arizona formed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-question-the-lonely-mountain/924676.md?page=2)