# The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Seen it; open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312 "2013-12-14T17:44:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/61 "2013-12-21T17:33:29Z")
> [@Achren](#): > > Truly, Lee Pace needs to be in more things. Holy shit - that was the pie maker!!! ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/62 "2013-12-21T18:50:30Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > But it was distracting to me that the actors’ eyes frequently looked like they we stoned. Rumors of widespread pipe-weed use on the set were vigorously denied by the studio. Reached for comment, Peter Jackson merely stated: “Frodo lives, man.” ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/63 "2013-12-21T19:40:35Z")
I saw it in HFR 3D. Despite my misgivings, HFR 3D is a lot better than ordinary 3D, but I think I’ll stick to 2D in the future. The film was far too long. It needed a pee-break. The whole section with Beorn could have been excised along with its ‘look at me, we’re using 3D, bees’. I did enjoy the back-and-forth between Bilbo and Smaug, but the whole forges thing and trying to drown Smaug in gold was decidedly OTT. Stephen Fry hammed it up gorgeously. I’ll be buying the EE BluRay in about 2 years’ time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/64 "2013-12-21T22:21:36Z")
Did anyone notice that Laketown was integrated? Those Elves are still segregationists, I can see. Could they not have had Thranduil played by Will Smith in long dreads? How cool would that have been! ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/65 "2013-12-21T22:43:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Did anyone notice that Laketown was integrated? Post 4. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/66 "2013-12-22T06:42:25Z")
It is a proven fact that any movie that includes people outrunning a fireball is a crap movie. A movie that does it a half dozen or more times is a gold plated turd. Now, admittedly it was the pure hell experience that the first one was but it was still pretty awful. Sadly, I can’t really hold going to see it against my wife (it was her pick) since I’ve dragged her to so many movies she hasn’t liked over the years. The barrel sequence was just stupid and approximately 43 minutes too long. The geography makes no sense. Putting Legolas in big fight scenes is inherently lacking in suspense. “Oh noes! He’s definitely not going to die so I’ll not bother caring.” The Smaug scenes went to long, and I agree that based on what we saw it is hard to figure out why he was quite so fearsome since he apparently is easily tricked into monologing forever, that I twas a relief when they ended the movie without any resolution. With luck my wife will be fine skipping the conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/67 "2013-12-22T16:12:36Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > The geography makes no sense. Could you explain this more? The only thing that seems weird to me is the fact that in the middle of a place with _apparently_ no hills, there are underground limestone streams and caves. But Tolkien’s maps don’t show a lot of the lesser hills especially in wilderland. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/68 "2013-12-22T17:09:10Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Not to get into a nerd-fight, but that is a far cry from “nearly no relation” to the source material. I’ve got your “nearly no relation” right here, **Eonwe**. - The political significance of the Arkenstone, and the possibility of reuniting all the dwarves under King Thorin, is stuff that PJ made up. - Every single Orc encounter from the Carrock onwards is stuff that PJ made up. Their only appearance is an off-stage interview between Beorn and a Warg-rider, of which Thorin and company see nothing except a severed head and a flayed hide. - Every appearance and every word spoken by Legolas is stuff that PJ made up. - Every appearance and every word spoken by Radagast is stuff that PJ made up. - Every appearance and every word spoken by Tauriel - and indeed her very existence - is stuff that PJ made up. - Gandalf versus everything in Dol Guldur is stuff that PJ made up. (Gandalf mentions at the Unexpected Party that he once went to the dungeons of the Necromancer “finding things out” and there found Thrain too late to help him. Between leaving the Company at the edge of Mirkwood and returning just prior to the Battle of Five Armies, Gandalf is acting in concert with the White Council.) - Every chase scene in the movie except for the fight with the spiders is stuff that PJ made up. - The arrival of the elves in time to finish off the spiders is stuff that PJ made up. (Unusually for PJ, he concluded this part too soon; as well as leaving out Bilbo’s heroism in drawing off the spiders from the dwarves, who were much sicker than he was.) - The conversation between the Elf-King and Thorin is 90%+ stuff that PJ made up; especially Thranduil’s prior experience with dragons, and his addressing Thorin as a fellow King, and attempting to bargain for a share of the treasure. - Bard being a smuggler is stuff that PJ made up. - Lake-Town being mismanaged and on the verge of starvation is stuff that PJ made up. - The Master of Lake-Town as a drunken bumbling incompetent is stuff that PJ made up. (It’s reminiscent of his traducing of Denethor in RotK. Seriously, Aragorn can be the rightful King of Gondor and Bard the saviour of (the people of) Lake-Town without either of their rivals having to be drooling nincompoops.) - The Company having to hide out in Lake-Town and try to burgle themselves some weapons is stuff that PJ made up. - The Company having to beat feet from Lake-Town to the Mountain in just over a day to be in time for sunset on Durin’s Day is stuff that PJ made up. - Lake-Town’s (and Dale’s) anti-dragon AA, and the “black arrow(s)” being artillery loads, and Girion having fought personally against Smaug using them, is stuff that PJ made up. - The secret door being located by moonlight, and not the rays of the setting sun as per the map, is stuff that PJ made up. (There’s drama enough in the book when the Company have been camped in the right location for some time without either finding the door or even knowing if there is a Durin’s Day this year - as it’s a rare astronomical event that they have lost the craft of predicting - are surprised one evening to hear a thrush cracking snails.) - Everything Smaug does prior to his departure for Lake-town other than hold _one_ conversation with an invisible Bilbo is stuff that PJ made up. - In particular, Smaug’s awareness of the Ring, and of the coming war, is stuff that PJ made up. - Bilbo’s removal of the Ring at any time when he is near Smaug is stuff that PJ made up. - Everything the dwarves do to or with Smaug other than hide from him in the tunnel near the secret door is stuff that PJ made up. - Bard being thrown into prison is stuff that PJ made up. In fact, if we leave out stuff that PJ made up, we have: - The company leaves the Carrock, begs aid from Beorn, crosses Mirkwood, is attacked by spiders, is captured by Wood-Elves, escapes packed in barrels, gets food and tools at Lake-Town, goes to the Mountain and finds the secret door, and Bilbo goes to see what treasure he can plunder from the dragon’s hoard and what he can find out about Smaug himself. The overview is broadly right but every single point of detail - and not just fine detail - changes. ETA: The prophecy about the return of the Mountain-King bringing ruin to Lake-Town, and Bard’s knowledge of it, is… fill in the blank. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/69 "2013-12-22T17:36:05Z")
If you leave out the stuff that PJ made up, you have a single, 2 hour movie. 😉 But it’s not so much that he added stuff, it’s that he didn’t delete much. Did he? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/70 "2013-12-22T19:58:35Z")
If anybody ever wants to know what a vapid load of padding looks like, then just tell them to watch this movie. Its a shame what they are doing with these movies, Jackson really has wasted them. Take Smaug for example, I loved the design they went for and in his first scene he just oozed malevolence and danger. It was all set up to have a fantastic tense scene where Bilbo tries to fool the dragon but in the end Smaug smugly tells him that he has guessed everything and is now off to destroy everything. They could have had a tense scene full of building menance, but no, instead we got an utterly boring video game sequence where nobody died and the supposedly scary dragon couldn’t even keep up with any of the dwarfs. Turgid, vapid padding. Thats all these films are. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus\_alba](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quercus_alba/32/4061_2.png) [@Quercus\_alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus_alba)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/71 "2013-12-22T20:56:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Did anyone notice that Laketown was integrated? **Those Elves are still segregationists, I can see.** Could they not have had Thranduil played by Will Smith in long dreads? How cool would that have been! I was expecting Thranduil to start in any minute with complaints about Muggles and Mudbloods. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/72 "2013-12-22T21:08:27Z")
Saw it today, enjoyed it. I think as of now, I will not ever set foot in another LotR movie/media related thread ever. The whining of the purist fanboys is just too much. I get it. It isn’t completely faithful to the books. I think that point was made with the first movie 10 years ago or so. Emphatically repeating it over and over really gets old. If you don’t like it, DON’T FUCKING SEE IT. Since I don’t care to ever hear another word of it, I’ll step out, permanently. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/73 "2013-12-22T21:22:53Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Thanks for the Arachnophobe’s Guide to “Hobbit” Film II ! With the time-frames as described, I reckon it will be well worth going. > > I wish I weren’t this way about spiders – actually, small ones don’t bother me. I recognise that spiders are fascinating and accomplished creatures; and in my country of residence, there’s no kind of spider that can hurt you in any way. As is well known, though, this stuff is not rational… Don’t worry we all have our weird phobias. When I was in college in Minneapolis, I couldn’t stand walking though the skyways. Also, if it makes you feel better, no one gets killed by them. One additional piece of advice, if you go with someone you might want to plug your ears and have them let you know when to unplug them, because when Bilbo puts on the ring he hears the spiders talking and I could see some arachnophobes being made a bit nervous by some of what they say and the way they say it. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/74 "2013-12-22T21:27:41Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Saw it today, enjoyed it. > > I think as of now, I will not ever set foot in another LotR movie/media related thread ever. The whining of the purist fanboys is just too much. I get it. It isn’t completely faithful to the books. In the same way that yo’ momma wasn’t completely faithful to yo’ poppa. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/75 "2013-12-22T21:35:24Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > In the same way that yo’ momma wasn’t completely faithful to yo’ poppa. 😛 This may (or may not) be intended as a joke, but it’s an insult nonetheless. Reserve such comments for subject matter, not other posters. No warning issued. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/76 "2013-12-22T21:41:47Z")
And nothing to say about “whining fanboys”? As you wish. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/77 "2013-12-22T21:54:14Z")
Just saw it. One of the few genres of fiction and film that just doesn’t grab me is pure fantasy, so most of the movie left me pretty cold. (Mrs. B. is a huge Tolkein fan.) I am still of mixed mind about HFR; the look is still cheap/video/soap-opera-y to me. I am not sure why they have to shoot the scenes so brightly as well, which doesn’t help with the cheapie image. What bothered me all through this film was the framing: both I and Junior Barbarian came out talking about how amateurish and simplistic the framing of almost every scene was. It was very much static and actors-over-there, camera-over-here, with almost nothing cutting off at a frame edge… it increased the feeling of distance from the story and seemed very low-budget and inept, no matter how much razzle-dazzle was in the frame. I wonder if the production needs forced them to keep the camera work simple. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/78 "2013-12-22T21:54:22Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Saw it today, enjoyed it. > > I think as of now, I will not ever set foot in another LotR movie/media related thread ever. The whining of the purist fanboys is just too much. I get it. It isn’t completely faithful to the books. I think that point was made with the first movie 10 years ago or so. Emphatically repeating it over and over really gets old. If you don’t like it, DON’T FUCKING SEE IT. Since I don’t care to ever hear another word of it, I’ll step out, permanently. Step in, take a shit, step out. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/79 "2013-12-23T00:41:08Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > One of the few genres of fiction and film that just doesn’t grab me is pure fantasy What does it mean, “Pure fantasy”? LOTR, Dungeons and Dragons stuff? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312/80 "2013-12-23T13:57:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you leave out the stuff that PJ made up, you have a single, 2 hour movie. 😉 > > But it’s not so much that he added stuff, it’s that he didn’t delete much. Did he? He deleted a fair bit though to make room for more of his own stuff. The movie was fine if a bit long but what it wasn’t was the Hobbit. It was only inspired by the Hobbit. The general journey hit the highlights of the book but none of the detail was correct. And well we don’t need to go into the padding, it has been covered well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-seen-it-open-spoilers/676312.md?page=5)